I am in the midst of once again reeingineering my layout, this time to maximize track running length and incorporate operational elements at far ends of the room (working in just a 10x12 room)…more point to point, and hiding the continuous loop/staging area behind a partition. (yes, i’m ripping up some recently laid scenery and starting again - does it ever end!!! [%-)])
And so…to create max running length, i’ll need to have either duckunders, some kind of hidden access and crawl space or slide/swing gates in order to access the partition and one other area in the middle of the reconceived layout. I’ve been reluctant to do this in the past because I have no experience with these kinds of things and tried to avoid them. Couple of questions (pics appreciated!) to the veteran modelers on the forum:
what is the minimum space/best practice for creating a crawl space…can it be effective just 12 inches wide (between wall and grid) without being a weird inconvenience? I’m just looking to get back there for the occasional derailment after the tracklaying is done.
Hidden access panels - the type where the mountaintop comes off and you pop up, fix something, and put the mountaintop back on…i’ve been intimidated on this because I fear creating something cheesy, that won’t blend back into the scenery and will look like, well, a pop-up access panel…any best practice or operational advice on this? I initially thinking to make it 24" deep by 36" wide.
Duckunders - they have seemed to me to be a big hassle, stooping down and up and all. But in my room I probably have no alternative if i wish to maximize reachable space. I have to keep the layout about 40" high so my kids can enjoy too. Any advice or experience there? The distance of the duckunder might be 3 feet, current layout guess. And swing out/swi
I’m an active flexible 62 yr old, and I would avoid any kind of duckunder,lift out and or swing gate. I actually took out about half my layout to avoid just that, However I added two liftout track only sections to cross the door to the room. I still rise up to soon and put a knot on my head from time to time.
I have 3 duckunders on my layout. I wish I could avoid them but I can’t. I have several points to make them easier to work with, however you may not be able to use all of them. I don’t have picks right now but I will get some posted shortly.
Keep them as high as possible. All of mine are lift out or flip up but you don’t want to be doing this constantly during an op session. The higher they are the better it is for just ducking under. As far as the 40" you stated, 2 of mine are at 56". I bought a $10 stool for my six year old who operates the railroad more than I do. For the area in front of the yard, where he is constantly moving back and forth throwing turnouts, I put in a 2x4 18" or 24" off the ground. It’s simple but it works great and he is able to switch the yard without moving the stool.
Make duckunders as thin as possible. 1 or 2 tracks only. Anything longer and you are probably not ducking, you are crawling.
This pertains to lift out/flip up sections. Make them straight and level. If you have seen my track plan (click on the pic in my sig) you will notice that 2 of my duckunders are on curves. One is a lift-out, one is a flip-up. Whenever a flip-up or lift-out section is on a curve or on a grade (or both) you make them more difficult to construct well. Whenever possible design these to be straight and level. Take my word for it, you will make your life far easier.
I use hinges to secure my lift outs. Just pull the pin and lift. It makes it easy and secure.
Interlock all sections of track leading up to the flip-up/lift-out sections. I have about 12’ of track on either side of these sections shut off whenever the section of track is not in place.
If the lift out section is done correctly, you will not need railjoiners.
I will add some pics later to illustrate thes points.
I had a 12" wide access aisle at the back of my old layout. It worked fine until I started to put on weight. Then it became a really hassle. 12" works only for the flat bellied guys.
I just fashioned a semi-circular access hatch using 2 inch foam as a base. You can then put foam around the outside of the hatch and bevel it down to the scenery base, giving you a continuous slope from the permanent benchwork into the access hatch. The seam can be hidden with foliage.
I hate duckunders and use them only to reach places I rarely need to get to. Of course, in your situation, it might be a compromise you have no choice but to make.
Here is my son working the yard from his elevated perch. Just a 2x4 screwed to a existing table. It won’t support my weight at the ends but it works for him. It is also thin enough that I can also get at the yard w/o having to move it.
Here are pics of my tilt-up section. Wires run beneath to power this and there is a limit switch which cuts power to the entire block when the section is raised. No plugs or rail joiners, just fold down and insert pin
My lift-out section is below. Since it is totaly removable I had to install a plug for power. The plug has 3 wires. One for (+) one for (-) and the third powers the (+) for the rest of the block. If it is unplugged the entire block shuts down. When not in use, I mounted an additional hinge half to let it hang from the side of the benchwork.
Just my philosophy on the subject but I also agree with the last guy, avoid them if you can.
If you are still interested in the swing gate idea I started a thread just about a month ago about a swing gate that I built for my layout. Many good comments were posted on the pros and cons of swing gate design. The URL link is copied below:
Also, if you are still interested you can check out my documented description with photos of my swing gate construction that is posted on my Layout Photos web page. The URL link is copied below:
You have essentially provided you own answer. Your own physical limitations, and what you intend to use this access for are the two principal determinants of its shape and dimensions, not to mention where it actually is. I believe that if you only need to contort a bit, reach up, and recover a derailed item or six, then maybe you can get away with 6". If you will have to get your head, at least one shoulder, and most of an arm up to retrieve items, or to rerail them in situ, then 12" won’t be enough. 16-18" would be the minimum for a runt like me.
I have built two types, a lift-off mountain top, and a lift-out lake surface. I can’t say that any of them were superb, but the lift-out lake was well ahead in the gee-whizz department, and in its characteristic of being non-obvious. The foam layers that comprised the mountain had an obvious separation where I had made the lid. You can do it, but it will always be a bit obvious unless you are very clever at hiding the meeting with trees and bushes and other items that don’t draw the eye because they are all on the same contour line. So, think about it, and maybe desi
I have one unavoidable crossing, which I’ve managed with a drop-leaf section.
It’s a pretty simple affair, with a slide bolt that locks it into place, and a phone jack to transmit track and accessory power. A separate 8-pin jack runs the control buss for the MRC Prodigy hand helds.
I have a duckunder on my layout. Here’s an older construction picture of the benchwork being built - the duckunder is along the right side near the two boxes of screws:
The bridge section is about 12" wide, with a 30" aisle width (or maybe I made it 36", can’t remember) and around 40" clear underneath. It’s quite manageable, though I certainly wouldn’t want it any lower than that.
So do I but my wife gave me the option of building lift-out sections or build an addition on to our house to have a first floor laundry room. Hinges cost much less.
I have been using a combination of glide unders and lift-outs for 8 years with great success. I sit on an office chair and glide under the upper level of the layout. While seated, I can easly remove or replace the lift-outs in the lower level that go to the staging yard. Often, when working on the layout or otherwise not using the staging yard, I just duck under. But if my hands are full it is easier to sit and glide under.
Gliding under allows for a considerably wider upper level. One shouldn’t plan on having to take many steps while bent way over.
Plan well when considering hidden access hatches. My father and I built a layout in his basement in the early 1950’s. When we had to tear it out in 1996, we found three access holes we had long forgotten about as we both had long outgrown them.
I have yet to build my lower level which will need something across an entrance isle. I was thinking a “lift out” or a “swing gate”…And now after seeing the “drop leaf” that wm3798 posted, that too, looks like a viable option.
No matter, I know that it will be something where I can walk into that isle. First off, I have a bad back with damaged disks that can be unforgiving at times! I have also realized over the past few years that the older I get the less flexible I become. So, unless I were to build a “walk under” (I actually saw one of these at a layout in the St. Louis area) I’m thinking that a gate type of thing is going to be my first choice!
El-capitan,curiously I have my two duckunders rigged with hinges almost exactly like yours. Unless I need to haul supplies in they usually stay in place. Seems like with all this talk about DUCKunders AFLAC should be mentioned here.
Wow, there are some really great ideas here. I’m going to take my time and ponder them. After a nice glass of wine (or two) while surveying my all-too mini-empire, I have decided for an access hatch in one end, just an 18 inch by 15 inch hole, something to pop into if there is a derailment. I think that will do for the occasional derailment there, plus scenery-making access. It’s not like I’m to going to dance in it (well, maybe after the third or fourth glass) [;)]
But I do need to tackle the duckunder/swing gate issue on the larger end of the layout. After seeing all the great applications here, I’m tending towards the swing gate…but yes, I need to ponder all this great info, look at it and get it, and be sure I don’t mess it up…again [:)]
I’m amazed at the modeling talent/railroad knowledge on this forum. It’s been a great assist to me. A sincere thanks to you all…
One of the great beauties of N scale is the ability to model a reasonable amount of main line running without having to be an acrobat. My basic rules of thumb are everything is reachable from the aisle, and at no point should I have to hit my head on anything.
I’m only 42, but I’ve been rewarded with a considerable girth thanks to my wayward diet… I figure I’m not getting any younger, so my layout will not be something that grows to be a chore just to operate.
Keep it Simple, Stupid. The bumper sticker on the back of my head…
