I plan on having some dwarf signals for my turnouts. Newbie Questions: Where should I put them? How far up or down the track should they be? On just the Mainline? Or on the diverging line as well? I’m pretty much going to run the trains in one direction, so do i only need it/them facing one way? I may or may not have Block signals at some point in the future. Thanks for any advice! George
Thanks for the photo. So it looks like they’re right at the beginning of the turnout.
In general, dwarf signals are used on secondary lines like passing sidings or in low-speed areas like switch yards.
BTW don’t confuse them with signal indicators, which show say green when the switch is routed for the mainline or red when routed for a diverging route. Dwarf signals are used as block signals or interlocking signals. The signals above in UpNorth’s example are probably interlocking signals since they have two heads (interlocking signals generally use two or more heads, whereas block signals are often just one head) and are at a junction where it appears two lines (perhaps a mainline and a siding) come together.
Red over Red means either the route ahead is occupied, or the turnout is thrown so that the train can’t go thru it without derailing.
Dwarf signals are used for sidings, passing tracks, and some yard tracks as described by Stix. For signals on the mainline, they should be the standard size. The locomotive should not pass them when a “stop” is indicated, so just place them to make sure the loco or equipment will clear and not foul the other track when stopped.
Different RR’s use different types of signals, so you should do some research on what types are around and what you want to use. Try this site for reference-- http://www.railroadsignals.us/
Even though you only want to use them for turnout indications doesn’t lock you into that. As your layout and electronics progresses, as long as the signals are correct for the location and in the right place, you can always connect their wires differently to serve a different purpose later on.
Great site! Thanks. So it sounds like what I have / want to use for now is a Turnout Indicater. It’s low to the ground and has a red and green light. I “loosely” model the B&O and some day may get some CPL’s. But for now I just want to show turnout position. Another RR friend said they should be located within 40 feet of the turnout. Does that sound about right? About 5.5 inches away on the main line? Or would I be “more correct” to not even use them and use block signals instead? Or am I confusing the issue? George
Guess where the picture came from !.. All I know is it was a dwarf, the only one I found on that site. [:)]
My Digitrax signals are more Nscale. I’m running HO so I set up the signals low and just go with the flow.
Signals protecting a powered turnout in a Centralized Traffic Control system application must protect ALL entrances to the turnout – there are three entrances.
Signals protecting an interlocking plant must protect ALL entrances to the interlocking plant – but not necessarily turnouts within the interlocking plant.
Signals at the end/beginning of signalled territory, e.g., the exit from a yard, must protect only the direction for trains moving into signaled territory.
Distant signals, which are outside of signaled territory and only indicate the indication of the block signal ahead, are one-way signals only for trains approaching the block signal ahead.
Intermediate signals between control points on single-track railroad are often offset from each other in order to improve sight distances or because they follow a wiring scheme (now obsolete) called Overlap Signaling. However, with rare exception, and except in Overlap, intermediate signals always come in pairs, even if they’re offset. (A control point is a power turnout in CTC, or a controlled interlocking plant, or a hold signal.)
Signals in ABS (trainorder) territory were usually 100% mast signals. Two schemes exist, one where there is a pair of signals just outside the points of the turnout, and a “full offset” scheme where there are three signals, one at each entrance to the turnout, just like in CTC. There are some instances of full-offset ABS using dwarfs on the siding.
Double-track railroads that were signaled were signaled one-way on
WOW!
Hi KidatHart06
If its point indicators you want make sure thats what you get they will have a red green indication facing both ways
They show green when the points are set normal ie for the main line and red when set in reverse ie for the siding or secondary route iether of these routes may or may not be straight depending on what set of points they are.
Point indicators are located oposite the front spreader bar of the set of points this stems from the mechanical days when thats what drove it, from the model point of view in line with the point spreader/drive bar is close enough to the right place.
Make sure when the indicator is wired in that it gives the same indication facing both ways and that the indicator is installed on the side of the track that a signal would be installed.
Signals and point indicators are not the same thing what a signal aspect indicates the driver must do, a point indicator only says this is the way the points are set it gives no Authority to do anything.
Remember you will not allways be on the same side of the set of points during an operating sesion so make sure the indications are correct or it could get expensive after the derailment you did not plan.
regards John Busby
Hi John, You say that I should have an indicator for both directions. Makes sense. And then you say it should be on the same side of the track that a signal would be located. But wouldn’t that be opposite sides of the track depending on what direction the train is traveling? As I understand it, signals go on the right side of the track, looking out from the cab. George
Hi KidatHart06
No a point indicator is one unit with indicator lights facing both ways.
So as you approach the set of points from the facing direction (the toe of the blades) the indicator will be in your case on the RH side.
Remember its an indicator not a signal so the set up is slightly different.
Hope this clears things up a bit.
regards John Busby
Now that you have a bunch of information you have to make some decisions.
Are you modeling a prototype arrangement or are you modeling something for your model railroad? About 75% of the signal systems discussed on this list end up being model railroad devices rather than functioning signal systems.
You also have to indicate whether you are indicating route or switch position. Switch position is purely binary (normal or reverse). Route really has four options: Trailing point move switch lined for the route, trailing point move switch lined against the route, facing point normal route, facing point diverging route.
If you are modeling a CTC system you need 3 “heads”, one for each route into a turnout. If you are using the signal head as a switch indicator, then all you really need is a head for each direction the switch can be viewed. Putting in all the signals may be cool, but if they face away from the operators where the operators will never see them, they are a waste and defeat the entire purpose of installing them in the first place. So if the switch is running parallel to the edge of the layout, you can approach it from the right or left so you need a signal facing each way. If the switch is on a track deep in the layout and you can only view it from essentially one angle, then all you need is one head.
One other option is to mount a bicolor LED near each switch that shows green for normal and red for reverse. That would simulate a switch stand lantern (which is basically a switch indicator). Since the LED would point up, it would be visible from all directions.
Dave H.
How’s this for a dwarf close to a turnout… This was taken this week at a yard a walk away from my house. It’s a yard to mainline acces.
