Predictable, but I thought it notable enough that it deserved its own thread. My heart sank when I read this. It’s a quote from a retired CP employee who attended a town hall meeting in Vancouver.
I think the only thing saving 2816 is EHH has too many other things to worry about right now.
You may have seen the ad a few months ago in the TRAINS newsletter taking reservations for the one and only RCP trip next summer. After that, I guess we shall see what we see.
Bruce
Few 2816 fans who would pay to be pulled by her are also paying customers toward CP’s bottom line I would expect. It’s a nice-to-have, and EHH isn’t about nice-to-have. I am sorry about that because I would always be happiest to know that particular steamer is staying ‘alive’, but…you can’t fault the man for being unpragmatic.
Crandell
Mr. Harrison is the last in the line of post war railroad heads who’s stance on steam locomotives and passenger trains is “they are evil.” That both Claytor brothers felt differently is the reason they stand out in the pantheon of the men who loved trains. Sooner or later the 2816 will be stuffed-and-mounted vis-a-vis the 611 and 1218. Maybe someday they will come back but for now there are freight trains to run and railroads to modernize.
Harrison is a money man. A no frills, bottom line, serious business man. His idea, and others in and out of railroading, are not sentimental nor do they stand on past laurels and ceremony. It they raise a hand it is to catch a buck or you don’t raise a hand. Black is black, white is white; there is nothing in between. They are computers in a human body. Does this make them wrong? or right? Depends if you are in it for the money or for the glory. He is in railroading for the money and not the glory but he is into money for the glory. Those of us who are sentimental or more relaxed about life and not just money can’t understand or accept this. We stop to smell the roses and admire the bush it grows on, accepting the thorns as part of life. Harrison and his ilk…and I’m not putting them down or demeaning them in any way…are focused only on the money as the sole product of labor and investment and not on the product produced.
Would someone please mind filling me in on Claytor derailing a steam locomotive?
Given today’s business climate, where holding companies are interested on return on investment and only ROI, his stance isn’t surprising.
Unfortunately, I don’t see that changing any time soon.
Henry,
Railroading is a business, not a hobby. Everyone who is in it is there for the money. The glory is long gone.
You have no basis to say he is into the money for the glory. That is strictly a product of your imagination and ranks right up there on the top of the list of most nonsensical things you have said on this forum.
As a business man Harrison IS concerned about the product. Taking a day out of a transcontinental sechedule, as he did is one example. CPTRAINMAN has provided several others.
Playing trains with steam locos interfears with producing the product in a long list of ways. The rational decision of a business man, especially one trying to turn around a big railroad, is no distractions.
Mac McCulloch
Well I’m pretty sure what Mr. Harrison is referring to is the 1986 derailment in Suffolk, VA of a NS Employee Special behind N&W 611. However the 611 did not “roll over” as Harrison says but Bob Claytor was at the throttle that day. Out of the 23 cars the 611 was pulling 12 of them derailed when one of the passenger cars picked a switch. All the car were equipped with tight-lock couplers except for three of the older Southern heavy weight cars. Two of those Southern passenger cars jackknifed and that where the most severe injuries were. The accident tied up the main line for a while and caused damage to excursion equipment as well as injuring quite a few NS employes and their families.
After that accident the Type H coupler became standard for those running excursion equipment. Amtrak uses the type H on all of its equipment and requires any private equipment on their train to be fitted with Type H couplers along with the other Amtrak standards.
Interesting note the N&W 611 had been in a derailment in 1956 along the Tug River. In that case the locomotive did indeed roll over. The ICC reported that the engineer had entered the curve at to high of speed and the high center of gravity cause the locomotive to tip over. I believe the engineer and fireman died in that accident but I don’t think any passengers died. I have a copy of the ICC report I printed from online years ago but I have long forgotten the link to the page.
I’m pretty sure it was #607.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=40481&nseq=274
I have an ecopy of the accident report.
Edit - the wiki entry for 611 does allude to a rollover due to speed into the Tug River. First I’ve heard of it, but I stand corrected.
Crandell
I am saying the same thing y
EHH has a little work to do before CP can take a victory lap. My guess is that at some point they will have E or F units … recall that CN did so (and still does).
This is one serious CEO. He set up quite a franchise at CN. I thank him everytime I look at my stock portfolio.
Ed
EHH is how old? Either he is super greedy, or he is in it for more than the money (glory? power?).
zug:
Great observation. My guess is he drove his wife crazy during retirement.
Ed
It’s kinda funny…everyone’s worried about the fate of 2816, and yet nobody has yet to ask “Will MILW 261 ever run on home rails with E. Hunter Harrison under power?”
He is doing a job. The job he was hired to do. The way he gets it done. Agree or disagree but it worked out well for the CN. And despite what I have said, it appears to have worked out for railfans in the long run because CN is a viable operating railroad for photogs to photgraph and watchers to watch.
Before I get too worked up over this I’d like to see a firm policy statement from CP concerning the steam program, not Internet inuendo. I’m not one of those guys who says “I saw it on the Internet, it MUST be true!”
I don’t care about EHH one way or the other. I do realize he’s not too popular with a lot of people right now, and to be fair I expect there’s going to be a lot of “Anti-Hunter” propaganda being disseminated, true or untrue.
Let’s just wait and see.
Any CEO’s job is to improve the bottom line and the price of the stock. But what is often omitted in evaluations (and this discussion) is for what period of time, for how long?. Next quarter? Next year? Two years? A business is an ongoing concern and short-sighted actions can look great in the short term, but not necessarily five to ten years later. And by then EHH will be back with his horses.
The CP managment are also getting rid of what they consider excess trackage, so there will be less places to operate a Steam Locomotive and passenger train without interfering with the rest of their business. The space of operation is getting crowded.
Andrew