Just to add a piece of trivia to this. The Illinois Central used E units when they first started the all TOFC train for Chicago to Memphis in the late 60’s. Of course, for a period of weeks, I think, the train ran with than less than a half dozen cars, so heavy rubber bands could have work as prime movers.
Every day IC Industries Chairman Bill Johnson would ask Intermodal Marketing Manager Bud Logan when the train was going to start making money. Fortunately, Mr Johnson was patient, and it wasn’t long before the E’s had to be replaced because of the growth of the TOFC business in this lane.
I remember having seen pics of an ore-hauler in the region of the great lakes. It used
F-units (ABBA oder ABA) on ore trains. In fact, they are running again trains, because of high ore-demand from China
The AC units with their fancy wheel slip systems still have better adhesion on the rear truck than on the front truck on poor rail conditions. I think this is due to better rail conditions after the front wheels and sanders have improved conditions for the trailing truck by cleaning some of the oil, water, snow, ice, leaves,etc. off the rail. The lead axle has the most problems, frequently reducing to zero output.
Other A1A-A1A passenger units were used in freight service.
In the 60s, the UP also used in freight service Erie Builts (Seatte - Portland - Hinkle) and PAs (same runs as above plus Nebraska). I am sure most of you have seen photos of Erie trains powered by PAs.
One of the senior UP Oregon Division hogheads that I worked with told me a funny story about how slippery the Erie Builts were. He was the fireman on an ABA set going up Sullivan’s Gulch east out of Portland on a freight. After clearing East Portland interlocking, the hogger widened on the throttle and the FMs went into their characteistic inboard marine hum indicating they were loading well. But then they looked out the window and noticed they weren’t going anywhere, they were in full wheelslip! The units didn’t have any wheel slip alarms, it was up to the crew to watch for this …
Sorry, I don’t know any web addresses for shots of E units on freight trains.
You can see B&W photos of BN freight trains powered by E units in the 1970 or 1971 BN Annuals by Hol Wagner, if you can find them.
You can find B&W photos of UP freights powered by E units in the Railroad News Photos section of one or several issues of Trains in the 1969-1971 era.
I have slides in my collection of UP freights Portland - Hinkle powered by a set of ABBBA E units that was cycling between those points in the summer of 1971.
The Alco DL109’s, with their A-1-A A-1-A wheel arrangment, just like the E’s, were sold to the New Haven as Dual Service locomotives and they did handle the New Haven - Boston express passenger runs by day and the New Haven - Boston freights at hight, all during WWII and for some years after, and they were successful in this service. But the Shore Line route may have lots of curves but doesn’t have much in the way of grades. As far as I know, they were not used on the Maybrook - Poughkeepsie Bridge line, which does have grades, and steam continued until FA’s were purchased after WWI (and Alco made a movie about the conversion). These “dual-service” locomotives had high speed gearing, with 90 mph running between “Boston Switch” north of Providence to just south of Reaville, just north of Rt. 128 Station. Also, I believe that the Q, or possibly METRA regeard the Q’s E-units in Chicago-Aurora service for lower speed and better acceleration when the boilers were removed and replaced by head-end power generators, and maybe somehone can confirm this. In 1952, the Burlington suburban trains were not very fast with one E-unit trying to accelerate eight of the new Budd gallery cars plus one rebuilt heavyweight at the end now a power car. My iompression is that METEA runs a faster service now. But I never saw a “Q” E-unit in freight service. I did see Pennsy and ACL and Seabord E-units in freight service at one time and another and never thought about it being special, but it was!
Zardoz & Randy, thanks again. Peter, I’m proceeding on the assumption that you’re correct, but it may be some time before I can actually look at the picture to confirm.
I seem to remember about five years ago, UP ran its Es in freight service during a power shortage. Does anyone else remember this? I want to say there was a picture of this in Trains.
After the education I received about Es under this post, I find it amazing that a first class operation like UP did that. That had to be the first time in forever that Es ran freight on a Class 1. Very interesting.
The E- units on the UP were rebuilt with AR 10 alternators and 645 e emd engines, I think VMV paducha did the work. These are essentially GP-38-2 locomotives.
Randy
I very much appreciate the technical info provided. Honestly, some of you should have a column in TRAINS.
One thing I had forgotten to mention. In the photos and the video clip the Seaboard and New York Central E-units hauling fast freight were used IN CONJUNCTION(m.u) with EMD hood units like GP35s, GP40s, and U-Boats.
So in cases like this wouldn’t it be feasible that the E-units leading in lashups like these were contributing significant horsepower and tractive effort in hauling freight over more challenging grades as well as straight and level fast track?
With a eight-to-ten car suburban train, and a little dampness on the rail, and maybe a grade crossing or two (to add dripped oil to the mix), it took quite a while to get any speed going when leaving a station.
The E’s wheels were also known to pick up when going over road crossings (again, due to the oil), even at speeds up to at least 50mph. And the wheel-slip system was so primitive that under the right conditions, that type of slippage would not even be noticed by the system. So if it was the #2 drive axle slipping, and you did not notice the feeling in your seat (especially in those %#@!&*! “Crandalized” conversions), you would glace at your spedometer and see a speed reading of 70-90 mph sometimes. And if you did not notice it in time, the overspeed safety system would cause a penalty brake application. Most embarrassing, especially during rush-hour where there is no extra time ‘padding’!
On a SD (I never ran the new fancy units with the elaborate wheel-slip system), if the wheels were slipping a bit, you could feather five to ten psi on the locomotive’s brakes to help dry the wheels, as well as restraining the slip if had already begun. On an E unit, you could not do that, as the idler axle also had brake shoes. and would at best retard forward momentum, or at worst, the wheels would pick up and slide. And you would get no wheel-slip indication in the cab either, so you’d never know until you released the locomotive brakes and the wheel started thumping.
BTW: According to some photos I saw a while back there is supposedly at least one E unit painted in Erie Railroad colors somewhere up north in “pristine” condition. Anyone know about this?
If you want to see E’s on a frieght - take a look in Fred Fraily’s “Twilight of the Great Trains.” He uses a photo of a Union Pacific mixed train arriving into Oshkosh, Nebraska behind back to back E’s. The train had about two passenger cars behind around 30 boxcars.
I don’t have the photo readily avaialble, but IIRC the E’s are running on a dirt balasted track.
I really like that photo. I sometimes just stare at it and try to understand why the UP ran that mixed train over that track with E units.
not just not being able to see…imagine backing a 70’ diesel around on that trolley track you’d find on poorly treated sidings…makes me nervous just imagining it.
Since we’re on the subject of E-Units, I’ve got a question regarding the fuel tank size on Southern’s E8s. Were the larger fuel tanks specified by the Southern to eliminate a fuel stop (or stops) en route to the passenger train’s destination? One more question regarding the same locomotives: what are the oval-shaped tanks in front of, and behind the fuel tank?
No, the E unit truck did not allow a third traction motor because the secondary suspension (swing bolster) was in the way. That was why all early SDs had the “Flexicoil” truck, because it was designed to take three motors. Also, the equipment installed in the E units was that from a GP38. If six motors were needed, the electrical equipment from an SD38, designed for six motors, would have been used!