EasyDCC - Free-Mo Group

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

Here is the topology I’ve developed for the Faulkner County Free-Mo group. I thought I would base the DCC standards on the Nor-Cal group, but it turned out, I think this will work out much better.

2

One has to join your Yahoo Group - Are you letting folks in to view it. You now have is set up as a closed group.

If you are going to use EasyDCC, are you going to provide the Digitrax LocoNet cabling so the modules are able to be used at a Fremo show? Or is this layout only going to be used by itself?

Jim

3

I have had a request to support NCE. I’m nor familiar with NCE. Is there a way to do this? Also would be interested in interfacing with Loconet, too.

4

your schematic looks simple enough. here are my thoughts for improvements and general questions.

  1. if each module has its own booster, then it can support its own accessory power feed saving 2 connections per module. phasing each modular’s booster is very important.

  2. the central layout console does not require its own booster if each module has its own booster.

  3. each modular with its own booster can get expensive for the individual modular owners. a basic 3 amp booster is plenty for several average size modules. (i don’t have a recommendation around this issue). multiple modules using a single booster would require an additional connection for the accessory bus (conflict with #1 above). maybe the central console can have a large booster and each modular have its own circuit breaker.

  4. why 2 throttle extenders on the central layout console? if extra throttle extenders are required for the number of modules (length of run), an extender can be added between the module connections as required instead of a basic connector cable.

  5. the throttle bus CAN NOT have any splits or T junctions. it must be a linear format. be sure to have the termination wall plate (resister installed) at the end of the throttle bus. this issue can be resolved by placing the wireless receiver at the end of the throttle bus.

just my thoughts.

5

  1. I want the Accessory decoders to be independent of the power bus. Yes, phasing is very important.

  2. The booster3 at the main console is for the accessory decoder bus.

  3. I agree with your concern here. I don’t have a final solution for this one. My current thinking is to supply the power and throttle bus myself or by another member who wouldn’t mind the expense. I have 4 booster3s at this time. Adding one of the new boosters with the reversing capability isn’t out of the question.

I have considered using a large t

6

Interfacing with NCE and Digitrax would be relatively easy using the six wire booster bus. Using adapter cables at each type of booster would allow use of all boosterrds but only as boosters. Still one and only one command station would have to be selected. Choice of command stationu will deterrmine the type of throttle and guys required.

7

Not trying to be harsh, but…

The Free-mo standard is the Free-mo standard (essentially Digitrax). Using a different standard - especially for the wiring and connections - means that your group’s modules cannot connect to other Free-mo groups’ modules, and vice-verse. You have an incompatible Loconet/throttle bus - and possibly incompatible accessory bus) when viewed from the Free-mo standard. And Free-mo asks that incompatible groups and modules not call themselves Free-mo so folks do not have a false sense of being able to show up at a setup and connect their incompatible modules.

Much more information about Free-mo can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Free-mo. And for those who believe they have a better standard, there is a process to change the Free-mo standard.

That said, when the Near Sighted Narrow Gaugers (group I belong to) went to work on an HOn3 Free-mo standard, they (and other groups) have come up with a standard that allows NCE, Digitrax, or Lenz (pick one and only one) to be used for a given setup. Six wire phone cable is used for the throttle bus/Loconet, along with NCE or Atlas face plates - all six conductors are used in accordance with NCE wiring. We have always used NCE at setups, but the S&SS groups using a similar configuration switch back and forth between NCE and Digitrax at their setups, depending on which system command station is available.

The only problem with the HOn3 standard from a Digitrax point of view is that an excess number of throttles can pull down Loconet unless the UP-5 powered Digitrax panels are used occasionally.

A pure wireless setup can be DCC-make agnostic, provided the track bus connectors and wiring are compatible. However, many train shows have multiple layouts attempting wireless, and are in a noisy RF environment to begin with. Interference and failures with wireless at train shows seem to almost a given.

We have never used more th

8

Hi Fred,

Thanks for the information. I have known a group that claimed to be Free-Mo that used EasyDCC in central Texas. I have a member of my group from the Chicago area that says the standard there is NCE. Of course, the European systems don’t use Digitrax.

The Nor-Cal system uses Digitrax. I like the basic ideas they promote, but not the operating system. I would hope that a person wishing to participate with us would contact the group prior to showing up.

I really like the architecture of the EasyDCC system. I’ve used it in a display that operated for two years on a daily basis. I have operated on a large layout here that uses Digitrax and was disappointed in the way it operated. It’s frustrating to lose control of a locomotive while operating. I would rather use a tried and true system I can trust.

I am designing this system so extra throttles are available (I have always done this successfully with the NMRA setup I used to operate). Temporary throttle hookups are available to quickly adapt modules to EasyDCC.

Jon

9

Jon

I understand where you are coming from. A couple of points:

  • European Fremo is a significantly different standard from North American Free-mo. Modules from one do not match up with the other.
  • If your group is self-contained and will not set up with other groups, deviations from the standard don’t matter. But when multiple group setups take place, deviations cause problems and lots of heartburn on all sides. Just within our group, we’ve had to remove modules from the layout at a show that just weren’t working well enough. It’s not pleasant to do, and feelings tend to get hurt.
  • The diagram you show in the first post shows a coax throttle bus. This is incompatible with all other DCC systems I know of. If you use the six wire flat cables for the cab/throttle/Loconet bus, with all 6 wires
10

Hi Fred,

As you observed, the only callout for anything special in the Free-Mo standard is using the Loconet protocol. The wiring specified is the same as the one EasyDCC uses.

I don’t know where all this nomenclature using Telephone (Telco) and Data cabling came from. I’m no expert on this, but I have installed RS-232, RS-422 and RS-485 in addition to Ethernet networks. The terminology we used was Data Terminal Equipment (DTE) and Data Communications Equipment (DCE). Terminal equipment evolved from mainframe terminal communications and later Personal Computers. Communication equipment included modems, hubs and switches. When connecting DTE to DCE, a straight through cable is used. When DTE is hooked to DTE or DCE is hooked to DCE a crossover cable is used. Newer devices are not picky about this and either type cable can be used, successfully. I still try and connect them old school.

While the Loconet protocol is specified by the Free-Mo standard, Digitrax is not specified as the operating system. Your comments support this obsevation. The throttle bus can be seperate from the booster bus and I have designed a quickly installed temporary tethered throttle bus, most of which I have used in the NMRA Modular environment. I guess we’ll have to see how this all works out.

Since I do have members who have modules built for NCE, this solves a problem I thought we would have. They won/t have to modify anything.

Thanks for the comments,

Jon

11

I guess I should have posted the URL for the group so the goals for the group could be read. One of our ambitions is to support NMRA warranted systems.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FC_Modular/

12

I’ve built and operated my modules in a couple FreeMo meets using Digitrax; but I use NCE when running at home. Because of the two different systems (as well as cost), I chose to use plain 6 wire data outlets for throttle plug-in points and Loconet connections on either end of my module set.

Are the NCE and Digitrax throttle plug-in points (I don’t want to ask about a specific part number because there seem to be quite a few) compatible with each others’ systems?

I’d guess (key word ‘guess’) that you could use any system on your modules, as long as you have the FreeMo (or whatever standard you wish to adhere to) wiring present, everything will be ok? For example: My modules can be run on DC by tapping into the track buss somehow (anyhow), and since I also have all the wiring to conform to FreeMo, I can use either without problems. (actually, I use Hex Juicers so DC probably won’t work for my modules, but for a simple ‘scenery’ module it should be fine) Following this logic, you can have two completely different (non-interchangeable) control busses wired into a module (only using one at a time of course) without problems? Maybe a ‘master system’ switch is needed to switch between various systems (and keep both systems separate and isolated)?

I agree “FreeMo” standards should be just that, for FreeMo. If it’s not 100% to the FreeMo standard, it’s not a FreeMo module. There’s nothing wrong with that, I have deviated in a couple places but I’ve also made provisions to easily convert to a 100% compliant module (except for the 'no track closer than 4" from the edge). As far in advance as possible, I contact the Run Chief and notify them of my deviations and check for potential problems; also, I show up early and with ALL the tools I might need to make any modifications to ensure I don’t hold up the show; so far, all has been well. Often, a member of the group might be avai

13

You can use the NCE ones, or the generic Tony’s ones, with NCE or Digitrax, but the Digitrax ones will not work with the others. Digitrax includes diodes on the wires that their throttles use for power, such that they can obtain power from any of 3 sources in the cab panel. Those same wires are used for a different purpose with NCE

And of course it’s always one or the other, never both together. You also have to wire all 6 wires, NCE cabs only need 4 of the 6, the extra 2 are used only by the PowerCab as the track power, Digitrax uses all 6 wires.

–Randy