Minor problem. If Ellis ran his own sleepers behind a Superliner consist, he would also have to provide his own dining car and lounge equipment, adding to his expense with not much more income.
Instead of BOS - Newport news sleeper run the sleeper BOS - WASH then attach it onto the end of of the Meteor to MIA. Unfortunately northbound poses many problems.
Now if Palmetto is ever extended to MIA but fat chance.
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The Boston - Washington market exists. Does not currently have a sleeper. It can be a business market, including Providence - Baltimore, because the times are reasonable and do not interfere with the business day. Acela is competition but takes time from the business day, especially the going part, less the evening return, the comjpetition is also first class air plus expensive hotel.
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The train runs through to Newport News Colonial Williamsburg is a marketable tourist attraction and educational experience, extremely worthwhile and a relatively unknown in the Boston market, a market that vaules histiory more than most other USA communities. So weekend non-business travel is a possibility. A clever travel agency can do a job on marketing this service, Raymond and Wittcome come to mind. Day travel between Baltimore and Washington and Williamsburg and Newport News can fill some of the seating available when sleeping accomodations vacated at Baltimore and Washington are converted for daytime use.
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Going to Miami takes extra equipment and competes with existing Amtrak sleepers. Also switching charges at Washington. The Silver Meteor is still a very decent train with good dining and loujge accomodatons and would give competition. Would not draw additional overnight business travel.
The real market are those prefer rail but find Acela cuts into the business day. In addition to the round-trip business, both ways, there are thsoe that would go via Ellis-Pullman and return via Acela. Most of these would fly if Acela were the only premium service.
1957-1967 I worked in the Bolt Beranek and Newman Cambridge, MA office. Every other professional consultant flew to distant jobs, in general, while I tried to use train service whenever possible and practical, often flying to a jobsite and returning by rail and countine the rail time as office time because I could do the needed calculations and design and write the report without interfering phonecalls and requests for help by my fellow consultants.
But Washinton and Baltimore were exeotions for most of my fellow consultants. Service on the overnight Federal was decent enough for them to enjoy an evening at home with family before boarding at South Station at 10pm or Back Bay five minutes later, with parking available, or at Route 128. Some would fly back home, others had friends and/or relatives to visit in Washington before boarding the Federal. None traveled coach, all that is avilable today, and would fly if the sleeperes were sold out.
If anything, flyers are worse off today. Then the Eastern Shuttle was a walk-on operation, and for a whle Northeast also offered this kind of service. No airport security checks.
Back in the late 80’s or early 90’s, I was taking one of my All Aboard America mileage trips where I went from Chicago to Baltimore on the Cardinal, then I was to take the overnight sleeper to NYC ( Amtrak ran two cars, one to BOS & one to NYC which was parked until 7:30 AM and a similar operation Southbound) Then I was going to take the train (Maple Leaf) to Toronto and Via Rail to Halifax and continue. Had all my tickets and went to the Baltimore station and the train arrived about 11:40 and only had one (BOS) sleeper. Conductor claimed I should have been notified. He allowed me and I chose to ride through to New Haven and return back to NYC on an early Metroliner (which I had to pay for) that got to NYC in time make the connection to Toronto. I did not desire to stay in Penn Sta from 2 AM until 7:30 AM. Rest of trip went as planned. Did get a voucher for the unused sleeper cost. Never did get any expanation why the sleeper had been annulled and I hadn’t been notified.
I fell prey, though not as badly, to a failure of notification ayear and a half ago. I had a bedrrom from Boston Chicago reserved–and when I came to the station here to start my trip, I learned that I would have to travel coach from Boston to Rensselaer, for the sleeper no longer ran through. My friend, the agent here, looked my itinerary up, informed me of the change, and issued me a new ticket. I had not been notified by Amtrak of the change.
One last time. The Ellis group (or some other three-year contracted operator) would operate the sleepers and one dining car using Amtrak equipment tacked on the end of the Amtrak-operated, coaches + bistro car (fast food) front part of LD trains. Ellis would get a declining fee to operate. He would use his staff and pay them. He would set his standards and sleeper surcharges (tickets) along with food menus and prices. He would keep the profits, if any. After three years, re-evaluate. If people won’t pay what it really costs, then d/c the sleeper services on a route by route basis.
My guess is few people on here who demand 1950s nostalgia LD trains are willing to pay 2017 prices. Heavily government-subsidized deluxe train services free marketers and Libertarians here should oppose on principle.
You should be used to repeating yourself by now. Just like practicing the phrase “President Trump” in front of the mirror each night…heh-heh.[:D]
Perfect for those trying to lose weight through vomiting.
Basically, I agree with the above. But I think the Boston - Newport News train would be an excellent first test of the concept. And since Amtrak cannot spare a sleeper to start the service, Ed should provide three of his own.
Just a crazy thought,
Why not run a diner on the Silver Star(the train that had the diner discontinued by congress)?
Probably wouldn’t work.
Would be a gpod experiment
I get the impression that diners are a loss leader, and that you would also need the sleeper fares to make money.
Only until someone realize that you can charge market prices for decent food, just like in a regular food establishment…once people(aka passengers) realize there’s decent food on the train at normal prices they’ll stop bringing their own on board and more will purchase the on board food. As far as sleeper accomodations go, the current pricing isn’t has highly subsidized as some would like to believe…you’re additional cost is what vs a coach; both have attendants(or should, in the coaches case…yes, it should be one attendant per coach). Personally, and from what I’ve heard they don’t make as much as we like to think they make, though it’s not poverty level either, it’s not living like a king wage either(that’s just salary, the benefits are the killer, and RR retirement).
Everythin I read says you can’t brake even charging normal prices in a rail diner. The have more expences than stationary restaurants. There is the expense and maintainence of the railcar, commissary, crew travel expense, etc.
Dining cars are not even true loss leaders, since all LD trains lose money, with the exception of the Auto-Train. With loss leaders, the loss is tolerated to attract customers in an overall profitable venture or for a limited period of time in a new or revamped venture. LD train have lost a lot of money throughout its 46 year history. Dining cars lost money prior to Amtrak as well.
To make it pay: Charge the real costs plus a profit, with reservations in advance for a complete meal service for the entire trip. Possibly $200.00. But make it worth it. Food and service and decore entirely comoperable to the Torquise Room on the Super Chief.
Cut losses by the menue given at the time of the reservation, and the food furnished and prepared exactly as the customer desires.
No refunds for no-shows. If there are no-shows, then the specific meals can be sold for reduced cost on the train for those without reservations.
Would begin with one car each way per week, timed for the heaviest days of travel.
What can be prepared in advance and kept heated or cooled on board without loosing quality would be so prepared. But some on-board cooking and preparation would be essential for the quality approach.
On the Southwest Chief, that would be 2 dinners, 1 lunch and 2 breakfasts + two nights room accomodation all with deluxe service and decor for $200? A Superliner roomette is $523 while a bedroom charges $1314, while the coach seat is $138.
^^^ Yes, completely missing from Amtrak. You can significantly reduce the dining car losses and food waste if you manage the asset intelligently with a General Manager at the Commissary that knows how a train should be stocked from experience being an on board Chef. I agree with most of what Dave says though I would tweak a few areas. Intelligent management of the menu is the difference between a huge loss and a much smaller loss.
For example, having the same hamburger for sale on the Dining Car menu for $10 more than you charge in the snack or Cafe car is just pure stupidity. Lets look at Ham, baked Ham on Thursday night. Leftover Ham is ground up to make ham salad sandwiches the next day and/or placed in split pea with ham soup. You can also strip or cube the ham and place it in a chef’s salad along with turkey. The concept is to reuse the leftovers in follow-on reciepes as Ham does not spoil overnight and lasts a few days after being cooked. So does turkey. Reusing in such a mannger reduces waste and utilizes storage space better on board.
For Soda…why the hell Amtrak is carrying cans of soda everywhere instead of syrup is beyond me. The canned soda is heavier and requires more handling and is not as easy to store as the syrup is. Amtrak is also paying for the much increased price of packaging of the soda (Aluminum Can) greatly reducing the profit on the sale of a soft drink. All around idiotic. Price it out folks a box of syrup costs $15-20, creating at least 750-850 drinks. How many cans of Soda does that amount too?, then you have to lug the Aluminum Cans off the train and dispose of them. If you are cycling the dining car from train to train you can leave the boxes of syrup on the train and connected to the dispenser.
Definety start selling alcholic beverages and have a bar tender on board whose sales wil
Ask ACY. Lots of problems in your plan.