Ok, Im a huge EJ&E fan but I dont exactally know the whole scoop on whats going on. I have a few questions. 1 When is CN actually going to take over the J? 2. Is CN going to completly fase out the J or keep it going and just use it to run their trains on the line? 3. I have been hearing rumors that CN wants to double track the line, Is this true? 4. What will happen to all the power? SD’s scrapped? [:(] Switchers going to the steel mills in indiana? Any info would be great… Thanks alot. Sincerly Dillon Harrison.
the scoop from what I have heard is its on temporary hold as STB has IL crying about it and several other different entities griping about it CN has proposed about increasing the height in some areas to accomadate double stacks thier goal is to eleviate some of the congestion in and around Chicago but thats about all I know
CN is supposed to be getting all of the EJ&E’s road power, the SD38s, SD38-2s, SDMs, and the lone GP38-2. I’m not exactly sure what will happen to the SD38-2s, as many of them were just rebuilt within the last 5 years. The SDMs would probably be gone pretty quickly and so would the two SD38s. CN is currently in the process of retiring the SD38s and SDMs on the DM&IR so it is pretty clear CN doesn’t want anything to do with either of those. They are also getting a portion of the switch engines, but not all of them. I would say the merge will be put on hold until at least 2009. There is a lot more to what is going on than just towns complaining about increased traffic. This merge could adversely affect both Metra and Amtrak. Amtrak could have to pay for maintence of the Amtrak St. Charles Air Line and Metra might not be able to built its proposed STAR line which would use a portion of the EJ&E from Joliet to Barrington. Towns also want CN to pay for overpasses/underpasses. CN has said it will pay but it is not willing to pay the majority. BNSF, Indiana Harbor Belt and Wisconsin & Southern have also expressed concern about the merge. The thing is while they would relieve congestion in one part of the Chicago area, it could mess it up elsewhere. For example, West Chicago already sees over 100 trains a day. Throw in 30 CN trains and you could be looking at big time back-ups.
This is really a shame. I dont want to see the J fall into the history books. I must have to agree with you EJE818. Yes, Maybe it will relieve congestion in some places but then its going to not only create congestion but make it worse in some places. There is going to be a lot of money invovled in this move. I really dont want to see CN’s where I should be seeing the good’ol Orange SD’s roaring by. With considering the situations with Metra and Amtrak, Im really wondering if this is actually going to go threw. I was just reading, (I believe in the herald news) that there was a meeting with the senator and the govenor and their main concerns were about who was going to foot the bill for all these widenings and bridges and sound walls proposed. And they were also talking about the issuses with the starline and Amtrak. If you know the J you know about bridge 198 which is a single track lift bridge on the western sub. I have train watched at the crossing a mile away from that bridge, I noticed when traffic got near the bridge they would slow down considerably. This would further more hold up the main street crossing the J before the bridge creating a back up. If CN were to increase their traffic on the line plus BNSF and UP who also uses the line, It would really really hold things up. A lot of crossing in and around crest hill, Joliet and plainfield would be held up big time. Now, The way they could fix this would be, yes, Build grade seperations, Then again, Think of all the congestion with the construction especially in plainfield. Plainfield is bumper to bumper most of the time and adding construction or more trains would just completly put everything at a stand still.
Yes, that crossing a mile west of the bridge would become a nightmare, I live about 10 minutes from that crossing. That is near the West Bridge Junction crossovers. The line is single track to CTC Turner Junction, then double track from there to the bridge, then single track over the bridge, then double track again into the yard. I think the bridge has a perminent 10 or 15 MPH speed restriction on it. CN has said it plans to double track the line from East Normantown to Turner but didn’t mention the bridge. I think they will have to replace the bridge to allow the proposed traffic increases to happen. That would be a VERY expensive and timely thing to do. From what I heard, little progress was made between Harrison and senator Durbin and CN seemed unwilling to say what was going to happen with the overpasses and Metra STAR line. This is why I’m surprized the STB said this was a minor transaction, because it won’t effect just CN but it will effect everyone in the Chicago area including all of the other class ones in the area, Metra, Amtrak and many shortlines.
Based on what’s been said here and what I’ve been reading for the last couple months, I’d say CN’s chances of doing what it hopes with the J are less than 50-50 right now. The West Chicago diamond would be as busy or busier than Rochelle, and just about every town along the line is looking to get some goodies for itself out of the deal.
Im wondering what they plan on doing with that bridge. 198 does have a 15 mph restriction on it and its only a single track. Im wondering what would happen if they tried to replace it. Also how much? Gezzz, You can only guess how much that would cost alone. If they were to double track from normantown to turner, It would be a diaster area in plainfield. Good thing the J planned ahead for a double track bridge at 59 in downtown plainfield. I cant wait to see how this is going play out. I just think there is extremely to much that would have to be done if CN took over the line. Is there anyway this could be stopped?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-railroad_11mar11,1,3345886.story
CN Railway offers to spend $40 million for Illinois overpasses in EJ&E bid
By Richard Wronski
Tribune reporter
March 11, 2008
The Canadian National Railway Co. is offering to spend $40 million for overpasses in suburban areas facing major increases in freight train traffic under its plan to bypass congestion in Chicago, the railroad said Monday.
The CN also pledged to cap Amtrak’s costs for the use of CN tracks, which the railroad said should calm fears that passenger service south to Springfield, Carbondale and other Illinois cities would be jeopardized by buying the Elgin, Joliet & Eastern Railway.
Both issues were addressed Monday in a letter from CN President E. Hunter Harrison to U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin and Rep. Melissa Bean, who have been critical of the CN’s plans.
Durbin, in response, told the Tribune that the railroad’s pledge of overpass money is inadequate and that the Amtrak offer would be only a “temporary fix.”
The letter spells out commitments Harrison said he made to the Democratic legislators in a meeting Wednesday in Washington. Harrison told Durbin and Bean he was “disappointed by your mischaracterization” of the meeting in a news release the legislators had issued.
The CN seeks to buy the EJ&E – which skirts the Chicago area from Waukegan to Joliet and Gary -
If you recall, back during the Conrail split, several Ohio cities held CSX and NS for several improvements. This seems to be the protocal for this type of sale these days (Rochester and Barrington are stoking the fires).
On a similar note, there was an article last Sunday in the Northwest Indiana Times about the EJE and CN’s lack of cooperation on moving the EJE tracks to accomodate lengthening the runway at Gary-Chicago airport. Also, what is the status of Metra starting up the suburban service on the EJE line?
If you connect the dots, you find that there is enormous postering and negotiating occuring. At some point in time, it might all get worked out:
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CN gets EJE
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Barrington and other communities get overpasses
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Gary Chicago airport gets longer runways
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Metra gets trackage rights on the EJE and fed write a big check to fund many of the improvements.
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CN’s costs for the purchase rises to participate in the improvements, but end up with the line and CTC to handle the Metra trains (similar to WC several years ago).
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Kirk Yard will be renamed Harrison Hunter Yard as he retires.
ed
Ed, I hope you’re right (on five out of six, anyway!). CN needs the EJ&E, and in the big picture, it’s good for railroading in general and Chicagoland (along with CREATE) in particular. I wish the improvements could be done before CN gets it (and the price increased accordingly).
CN is a big railroad, with the best operating ratio on the continent–they have deep enough pockets to afford whatever it takes, if the end result is worth it.
Ok, CN has announced their plans on the Crossing elevations and Amtrak but what about the Metra starline? As I’ve been thinking about this with metra on the J or “CN” what about the UP coal trains and the BNSF run-throughs? Im guessing they will still get the trackage rights, Just from CN instead of he J. Correct? Im also wondering about the IRL. I live in shorewood just off the IRL, Its going to be kind of wierd seeing CN’s locos pullin the what used to be the JSW1 and 2. No more EJ&E Cabooses either… What a shame… Hope they atleast make it to a museum…
The Star Line proposal has been on the back burner for a while, in part because of more pressing projects.
I don’t think CN is going to be getting the EJ&E cabooses, last I heard they were only going to get a small portion of EJ&E’s car roster. If they planned on continuing to use cabooses for JSW1 and JSW2 they would probably have to come from other CN owned railways. Downtown Plainfield would be pretty bad but it wouldn’t be as bad if you could have two trains running through there at 45 MPH. I think the double track would help that situation. Plainfield sounds like they want a second overpass as part of the deal. I think it will come down to how much CN realy wants the EJ&E because I think once everything comes down, it will be well more than 300 million spent for the line. I’m thinking CN didn’t expect all of this opposition when they announced the merger. It will be interesting to see how this pans out but I wouldn’t expect the towns, counties and the state to back down anytime soon. West Chicago would for sure be one of the busiest junctions in the Chicago area. I don’t even want to think of all the back-ups that could potentially occur there on both lines heading through.
Yeah, let’s look at West Chicago! Right now, one of the busiest lines out of Chicago crossing the J. CN wants to increase freight frequency on the J. Metra wants to increase scoot frequency on UP West. Then, further down the road, we have the Metra STAR line, which wants to run short trains very frequently–what was it, two per hour each way? You’re right, Robby–this will be the place to watch trains.
The J will need a second track. It’s their crossing–think UP’s or Metra are going to appreciate delays here? You really need a flyover, but the llayout of both railroads’ tracks here makes this a difficult accomplishment at best, with tracks leaving both railroads practically right at the diamond. The streets in the vicinity don’t help, either–but one already sees half-mile traffic backups at times due to the blocked crossings (I can measure these with my bike–and I’m not kidding!). And the way the neighbors complained when UP wanted to build a connecting track in that neighborhood, a grade separation–assuming it can be made to be workable by the railroads–has roughly the same chance as a snowball in Springfield.
Here in New Lenox the Mayor and Trustees are having a cow over it. They are claiming they need fifty overpasses at $50 million each. CN plans to park trains, outlaw crews, pollute with diesel fumes, on and on. They held a town meeting that they have played on cable eight or ten times now making all these claims and they have stirred up the locals to the point they will probably be throwing rocks at any EJ&E trains. The funny part is that three ofthe four roads in question now cross the ROck Island which is double tracked in New Lenox that sees 68 Metra trains and numerous CSX and iowa Interstate trains daily and blocks the same streets. Apparently it depends where you live that it is a problem. They are really playing this up. Can you say NIMBY?
I completely forgot about Rock Island Juntion! That is going to be pretty bad as well, not near as bad as West Chicago, but that will still be pretty busy. About Bridge 198, I think CN will need to replace it or build another bridge next to it as well as rebuild the current bridge for higher speed limits. With slow speed restrictions and a single track, that area will become a big-time bottleneck if they don’t do anything to the bridge. I don’t really think you need 50 overpasses but it will be interesting to see how much CN would have to pay for overpasses. The offered 40 million but the state said that isn’t nearly enough.
For a somewhat more realistic, and factual, perspective on this important subject you might want to check out www.cnrealitycheck.blogspot.com.
J. Giblin
Why let facts and reality stand in the way of NIMBY judgement.