Hi All Wondering if anyone knows or can direct me to the following: initial load of the Lionel #397 coal loader and the subsequent operating amperage. I have looked and have been unsuccessful. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
If you give me an hour or two, I can get you the numbersā¦
Sorry for the delay. If you can give those to me when you can, would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Bill
SureāIāll run over and get them as soon as possible. There was anā¦ unexpectedā¦ complication to my schedule, but I can probably get them tomorrow morning. I am terribly sorry about the further delay.
So, my coal loader is in good, regularly-serviced operating condition. I filled it with some nice, heavy aquarium-gravel coal. Hereās the specs:
| Starting Load | Running Load | |
|---|---|---|
| 16.8VDC; Digital Meter | 2.5A | 1.3A |
| 16.8VDC; Analog Meter | 5A | 1A |
| 16.8VAC; Analog Meter | 5A | 1A |
I will add in this disclaimer: I am starting to lose trust in my analog meter, as it tends to swing wildly. Thus, I suspect that the ā5Aā reading was not the actual amperage, but that the meter swung too far in its hurry to get to the real reading. Additionally, it is fairly difficult to make very precise measurement with it. Note also that the DC used was not real DC, but instead rectified AC.
May I ask why you need the amperage specs. of the coal loader?
The inrush current will trip the CW80 easily at well over 5 amps. continuous running should be 1-2 amps based on condition for the open frame AC-DC series wound 622 style universal motor.
First let me say thank you for going through the hoops to get me the information. I really appreciate you doing that for me.
I am building my first layout in approximately 68 years. My design is to minimize the number of transformers by using potentiometers to regulate the voltage etc.for my accessories. My search for a potentiometer that would work without question led me down many paths. One spec that popped up unanswered was the initial draw when you turned the accessory on. The first one I am working on is the #397 coal loader. Investigated many potentiometers, many were ruled out because of price. Found a 50W, 10 ohm potentiometer which is very close to your reading. Close enough that I will now order more of them. I have 10 operating accessories. I think they should all pull about the same initial load since they all have similar motors.and operating current. However I will run some operating tests just to make sure.the operating loads are about the same. I will try to copy your method of finding the initial load.
FYI I have 2 coal elevators #97, 2 lumber loaders#164, 1 coaling station #497, 1 col ramp #456, 3 magnetic cranes, 1 milk car., 90% of which I obtained after I closed down my original layout. Thatās not counting the engines, cars and other accessories for villages etc. My wife is an angel for putting up with me, helping me pack for moving 3 times.
Thanks again, your numbers give me peace of mind.
Hope to see you on the forum.
Take care
Bill
Hi Rob
Thank you for the information. I will put it to good use.
Makes sense, though that is the opposite of my own strategy (which consists of using a large quantity of small transformers). What transformers are you going to use?
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Note: Try using a digital voltmeter to check for a āblinking turn signalā voltageā¦problemā¦digital meters have a āsampling rateāā¦THEY ARE NOT continuously monitoringā¦therefore the āblink rateā and the sample rate will never be in sync. Thus the meter is being driven nuts trying to keep up. On the other hand an analog meter can be at a disadvantage when monitoring a running loco voltage/current amount. With the electrical connection being erratic the meter goes nuts w/all the spikes. A solution is to install a capacitor across the meter input. The capacitor will take the spike and ātameā it by āfilling-upā the capacitor. Then when connection is dropped (open circuit = no voltage/ no current ) the capacitor will āunloadā thus smoothing out what the analog meter is ātrying to monitorā. Without the capacitor the poor meter is driven nuts w/the āon/offā erratic situation. regards mike endmrw0518261404
Yeah, I keep putting off installing a capacitor on my ammeter.
Off topic, BUT NOT.
I would like to make a mock-up of a 1:1 control stand to use on a DC HO layout.
- I would build a control stand with ānotchā control lever.
- Each notch (before anyone saysā¦waitā¦you can do this simplerā¦MY RRā¦MY DIY ideasā¦LOL) will be electrically connected to different voltages.
- To obtain #2 I thought of a rheostat w/multi-tap connections.
- Hey, cheap transformers can be an alternate route from rheostat. This came from this post. OKAY, okay total cost of purchasing items = instead why not go DCCā¦No way, THAT aināt no fun.
- Hang on, FOLKS, donāt forget, Iām the FIY fanatic
- I have a āsound moduleā : track voltage = diesel rpm sound
- OKAY the notch mock up in #1ā¦made in TWO electrical levels, however only ONE mock up notch lever.
- āOne levelā would be the notch number = the voltage to the sound module for that diesel rpm sound. I hope youāre are all aboard on what i"m doing hereā¦cause the next level is gonna be WILD.
- The 2nd notch lever, level will have active transformer voltage to the DC loco. BUT the voltage will be attached to a HUGH capacitor (used in audio/sound system electronics).
- When in notch one: sound is low idle, loco does NOT move until capacitor gets fully charged.
- NEXT, NEAT event: Take mock up throttle lever and WIPE it to notch #8.
- Bingo ā¦sound module gives HIGH rpm sound.
- BUT the loco (notch #8) is gradually āgivenā slow increase of voltage while the capacitor is being charged.
- End result, pretty much like the real thing. Remember, Iām cheap. DCC is NOT my thing. Thatās too easy. LOL. endofmyramble. regards mike endmrw0518261440
I have a couple of nice(older) HP 5 1/2 digit bench meters that, among other things, let you set the integration time and sampling rate. If youāre willing to drop them down to 3 1/2 digits of resolution and completely turn off integration, they can be far more responsive than any analog meter Iāve ever used-of course to āuseā them in real time with that rate, itās best to have them connected to a plotter(or to plotting software).
Thatās also getting into the territory where it MIGHT make more sense to just figure out a way to make gthe measurement on a scope, especially since a DSO can usually plot several seconds on the screenā¦
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Oh my, as an 8th grade teacher, I asked my principal, please purchase an oscilloscope. āWell, Mike, how often will you use this?ā He was hoping to justify refusal. āWell, Mr. Penry, how often will I use page 67 in my text book? When I need it (not that often), I NEED IT.ā He was my HS Chem/Physics teacher, so I had an āace in my pocketā. We got it.
Man, that āscopeā is FUN. Anyone āplay withā Lajasune (sp?) patterns on a scope? Ya canāt demo that very well w/o a scope. regards mike endmrw0518261404
Lissajous figures. Familiar to kids who watched The Outer Limitsā¦
Whatās fun is you can demonstrate what they āmeanā with a wheel that has a light or pen at the edge.
A potentiometer is a current limiting device, the voltage drop will vary with the load, so this is really the wrong device for your applicationā¦ and they are large and expensive at 50 watts & 10 ohms, and waste a lot of energy in heat.
For supplying multiple voltages to various points from a single large transformer, you should consider a diode array with several taps.
Here is the complete article:
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Hi Rob
Thank you for the information. I already purchased all of the potentiometers that I need, so I will continue with them.
Your information looks intriguing since I have never built anything like that before. Once I have my layout operational I will look at replacing the potentiometers with the diode array.
I appreciate your help.
Take care,
Bill
Super post Rob. Thanks regards mike endmrw0520261348
That would be my thing too, if I were doing this, but it is convenient to vary voltage in real-time with a dialāmaybe hook up a rotary switch to the diode array?
āVarying AC voltage in realtimeā is going to involve a Variac, not a rheostat or āpotentiometerā unless you rate the resistance to carry the corresponding current. The point of using a diode ladder instead of a resistance ladder for power loads is the waste heat.
There actually are relatively budget-priced variable transformers for sale,and in some respects it may not matter if parts of them are Temu quality. Iād still recommend voltage-to-voltage conversion for DC even if it costs a little more to do it right.