Hello. I’m modeling an Appalachian railway set in Virginia/West Viriginia during 1969/1970. I want my railway to have influences from the Virginian railway and I thought about having an electrified section. Would this be plausible for a railway set in this era and region? Would it be a hassle or feasible to model this type of operation? Are there companies that make the needed electric locomotives at a decent price and are they available?
I think the Virginian was bought up by the N&W in’63/64, and sold the electrics to the New Haven. So, by your era, the electrics were gone. Years back some body made those electric motors,maybe Lionel or Bachman but I can’t recall mh.
The thing that killed the VGN electrified trackage when that railroad was swallowed by N&W was re-routing of the heavy trains over the easier grades of the more-or-less parallel N&W. With the VGN route being operated one way, there was no way for the electrics to make money in the other direction.
An idea was floated at the time that catenary could be hung over the original N&W route, thus electrifying both ways. However, stopping to change engines at both ends of the wire was over-ruled in favor of more efficient utilization of locomotives that could run from one end of the railroad to the other.
That said, there’s nothing to stop you from moving your layout into a parallel universe where the electrified line DIDN’T become a one-way railroad. After all, if I can mine coal in a location that never had any…
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
The N&W’s directional track use really did spell the end for electrification on the old Virginian. I thought about maybe saying that the Virginian didn’t merge into the N&W and instead partnered with my railway. Having electrification would probably be a very interesting operation addition. One thing is availability of models of electrified locomotives. Are there any recommended readings on electrification?
Actually, you could have a little fun with this idea using Bachmann’s E-33 and MTH Little Joes. The little Joes were built for export to Russia and ended up on North and South American railroads including the South Shore and Milwaukee Road. Here’s an E-33 on ebay right now. I don’t know what the running qualities are though.
You could just say your free lance road picked a few of the Little Joes too, The E-33s were built by GE and were also Virginian locomotives. There again, your road could have picked up a few. Every RR should have something old and something new and a few box cabs would be nice but you’ll have to either purchase brass or do some kitbashing. Incidentally, what did the Virginian use for switching in the yards? You could do like Bill Darnaby does on his freelance Maumee Route and take commercial locomotives and make slight modifications to give them a family look. There are possiblities with brass and the older brass is actually in the price range of the MTH loco. With brass you could pick up some Milwaukee, New Haven and Great Northern prototypes. Again, slight modifications could give your road the family look.
Your other possiblity would be to proto freelance a branch or division that never exised but make it a part of he Virginian. You would use Virgianian practrices and motive power and connect it with a real part of the Virginia perhaps with staging, at the end of a yard or at junction. That is what I am doing with my Wabash Indianapolis Branch that connects with the mainline at Fort Wayne, Indiana. My modeling the standard structures, motive power and operating practices of my favorite RR is great fun but I’m not stuck with trying to fit something
A freelance rr means anything goes you want. Have at it.
Sure hope you’re planning on putting up overhead. The electrics will look much nicer that way.
As long as you’re doing freelance, your railroad could have picked up GG-1’s and etc. from Pennsy, and/or the marvelous electrics of the GN, and/or something from the New Haven. You could run some painted up for your railroad and/or run them with just a patch job. Sounds like fun.
Ed
For overhead, you can do as I will when I get out of the netherworld into visible territory. Put up the catenary support bridges, substations, wire tensioners - but leave the wire virtual. Our Japanese brethren do this all the time. Beats trying to work on/correct derailments under a spiderweb.
If you decide to go purely freelance, there are HOj and Nj models of older Japanese electric locos that would make nice ‘foobies’ for North American practice. I’m thinking particularly of the 2-C+C-2 and 1-C+C-1 boxcabs, which resemble contemporary Westinghouse products. I bought mine many years ago, but you might get lucky on E-bay.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - partially under virtual catenary)
Yes – It is certainly doable – Free-lancing is your modeler’s privilege!
This is the free-lanced CR&T is in Western Pennsylvania (Appalachia’s northern tip) by answering these 2 questions:
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What if the PRR had electrified from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh for their GG1s?
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What if local traction company’s extensive PCC’s expanded to an interurban?
Thus, I’ll be running GG1s on the Pennsy layout-portion, and; PCCs & box motors on the CR&T layout-portion-- and in N Scale.
N Scale Magazine – Nov. 1996, Jan. 1997, July 1997 – had an excellent Virginian-specific series, by Robert Hundman. I purchased mine on eBay.
Regardless of the scale modeled, traction requires a fair amount of scratchbuilding. HO Scale has the most RTR equipment of all the scales.
You may find kit-bashing engine-conversions to be the best way to get what you want. If you’re doing live overhead, you’ll need reliable template-jigs to construct & solder the poles – Unless you’re willing to settle for, and especially pay for, what is available in your scale.
P.S.: Virginian provides neat scenery options for electrified operations over bridges.
Again – Yes – It is quite doable – It is free-lancing!
E-33s and E-44s would be some electrics that I would prefer. A vintage boxcab would be very cool as well. Having the posts and not the wires seems like a possible decision, but doesn’t realism suffer a bit? Did diesels usually run along the same tracks as electrics without electrics leading? Would it be possible to do this?
Does your free-lanced CR&T use engines painted for the pennsy or do you have your own scheme? I do want to have electrification but then doesn’t that mean that I can’t really operate diesels over my line? How many real railroad miles does your layout depict? I’m not going to do live overhead. One thing that is a major is that all the catenary wiring can get in the way for derailed cars and switching. How do you overcome this? Plus, do you use diesels as well as electrics?I plan to use E-33s (bachmann) and E-44s ( kitbach E-33 into E-44 possibly since they have same truck centers and frame lengths). I’ve seen a brass model of an E-33 and an E-44 in my local hobby shop, but I don’t want to pick one of them up cause my dad is somewhat discouraging me away from electrification. My grand father has a european layout that we use sometimes and it has catenary wire on it. Since cars derail due to some tight curves, its very hard to re-rail them.
To answer some questions…
CR&T is now in redesign – the layout room is remodeled to suit “HGTV standards” and available space is known. This extra timeframe has actually been a blessing for research. 2011-12 goal is benchwork & trackwork – again “taking-your-time” with a long-view.
Scale: N Scale makes this doable in limited space, but; also means more scratchbuilding & engine-conversions than for either HO Scale or O Scale RTR.
Era is 1956: PCC, and box motor variations – plus the “Road” in CR&T allows for small diesel & steam flexibility, and even a doodlebug (gas electric). The Pennsy layout portion in addition to GG1s, will run first generation diesel, and allow for some last generation steam.
CR&T’s scheme: Inspired by Johnstown Traction Company PCC 2-tone prototype. Pennsy color scheme is separate from CR&T and fully-prototype.
Also see apx. 100 prototypes at Dave’s Electric Trains main webpage for more ideas – including Virginian and N&W Elkhorn Tunnel electrification.
Benchwork: Layout must be free-standing – without wall attachment. Design is a u-shaped cockpit with a helix connecting 2 levels – Upper level is mostly Pennsy, and; lower level is primarily CR&T – a Pennsy mainline surrounds CR&T operations.
Layout Vignettes: The “u-shaped cockpit” provides 2 things – Benchwork stability, and; scenic vignettes.
First, as a fellow freelance/protolance modeler I say go for it if you want - it should be fun and interesting.
On a historical note you should understand that rural rail electrification did not last for several reasons.
In addition to the operational considerations discussed so far, it did not prove to be as economical as first thought when it was designed and built. Operating costs ended up being much higher than planned.
Electricity can not be stored at these voltages and power levels, it must be generated at exactly time needed and placed “on the grid”. Any excess not used is lost and thereby the energy used to generate it lost.
On busy lines like the North East Corridor it is easy to balance demand with supply and to minimize this waste. With the Virginian, not so much so. Power plants cannot be “turned on” or “turned off” that quickly as to be cost efficient.
So, since opperating costs where higher than planned, and the added infrastructure, the overhead wires, was aging and would need major maintenance soon, combined with the new operational plan using N&W trackage, the electrics were abandoned.
To this day, urban mass transit and the North East Corridor are the only large applications of railroad electrification that have proven economical in the US.
The diesel electrric, carring it own generator, has proven its self to be the most efficient.
As a side note, a recent study in home heating concluded that if every home in the colder sections of the country had a modern high efficiency oil or gas heating plant rather than electric based heat like heat pumps, that less oil and gas would be burned (since mainly oil and gas is burned to generate the electricity) to heat those houses and thereby their carbon footprints would be less.
Another consideration with the central generation of electricity is the that extra “power” must be put on the grid to allow for line losses. This increases with both distance and as p
The classic work on the topic is the book When the Steam Railroads Electrified by William D. Middleton. In the “good news” column, the book is again available in a second edition from Indiana University press.
http://www.iupress.indiana.edu/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=21939
Bill
During the first fuel shortages in the early 70s, Southern Railway did a detailed study of electrification of the CNO&TP line from Cincinnati to Chattanooga. The plan was to have the electrical utilities to build and maintain the power lines. The fuel crunch slacked off and the plan was shelved, but it makes a great “what if”.
If I could make a couple of suggestions: If you freelance, be conservative on the paint scheme. Also build plenty of high steel trestles, perhaps built from Micro Engineering kits.
Good point!
Here’s a picture + description of an N&W “Dynamo” Electric Power Car acting as a portable substation where grid electricity was lower for traction motive units – at Dave’s Electric Railroads. A prototype dynamo railcar can easily be added to a tiny siding on a model railroad in addition to substations.
For my railway, I’ve thought about using the Virginian diesel scheme or possibly one closely resembling it since I want to use a similar herald as well. E-33s will be on the roster and I’ll try for E-44s (can be kitbashed by using an E-33 drive and frame). My local hobby shop has a Brass E-33 and an E-44 but each one is around $500. That’s pretty pricey for me right now. As with the article on the Virginian railway catenary, is that article available as a pdf or something? What would be best to do, have actual wires strung over the catenary or to just “imagine” they’re there? Is there a good method or material for catenary wire? I could try finding Bachmann E-33s but so far I’ve only seen one and that was years ago. It’s a part of their spectrumm line. Does anyone know how well they run? Are there any articles on kitbashing an E-44? Would it make sense for my railway to operate some trains on the main with electrics and without electrics? Would it be better to just electrify a section of my railroad?
You might use diesel for switching in the yards. If you were to mix diesel road power in with the electrics or run exclusive diesel road power on a given train, I would suspect that would be a sign that electric road power was on its way out. But with your model railroad you could freeze the time frame. I do not know enough about the Virginian to know what they used for power in the yards but have not seen pictures of smaller electric power like the Milwaukee Road had. You might consider modeling a branch or branches that were not electrified and run diesel power on those but still run electric power on the mainline or on a very steep branch with a lot of coal sustomers to justify the capitalization. When you think about it, another form of motive power like diesel (or steam in the proper era) for yard power makes sense because of the need to string wires over the yards tracks (expensive) and that the electric infrastructure was really meant to conquer steep grades more economically than other forms of motive power on the main. A case by case study might provide some realistic options.
Truth is that by the 1970’s any older electric power is on its last legs. What the finance department doesn’t kill the government will finish off. Not the FRA, but the EPA. The older engines were awash in PCB’s in the transformer oil. Add to that the cost of maintaining a small fleet of specialized power, having to change engines at the end of the territory and the increasing power of the diesels and you can see why the Virginianand NH ended their electric freight services and the Conrail electric freight operations were in a death spiral.
Having said that, it was way cool when commuting to college in Philly in the late 1970’s watching the E-33’s shoving trains up to Paoli on the Main Line (they were regularly assigned there). I even saw the ex NH EP-5’s in helper service there. By the time I graduated in 1979 the helpers were a set of SD35’s and about the only thing hauling freight were GG-1’s and E-44’s