Yes and flag stops with modern ticketing apps the train crew will know exactly when to stop.
The way to go.
Combined figure likely split 50/50 for those minor stops.
A waste of money. In the case of Tomah, it’s not worth stopping for ~8000 passengers boarding and disembarking split among four trains annually. That’s really about 3 riders/per train per day.
Tomah used to be a nice Milwaukee station (Milwaukee had decent shops there as well) but WisDOT opted for a tiny bus shelter instead of a nice station. Anyhow, they need to restore the 90-100 mph running through Camp Douglass and through Tomah. Hiawatha’s used to fly pretty fast beyond the Wisconsin Dells Stop. They did or do have it in the plans to increase speed by 10-15 mph over the Mississippi River bridges and straighten out the approach curves there.
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I was a member of this alliance for 20 years. It was called Midwest High Speed Rail then. I finally realized their proposals are pie in the sky, they ignore any details and don’t even consider developing any financial viability estimates even though I offered to do so.
The only thing they ever proposed that which actually came to fruition was the CHI-STL line that you above rightly disparaged. I left the organization over that boondoggle. They stopped even talking about it. I’m guessing they changed their name too because they no longer had credibility even among Democrats in Illinois. I heard that personally from a downstate Democrat I had lunch with.
One example of their lack of detailed planning? Look at that proposal above for Metra’s UP North LIne: A New Path to Chicago-Milwaukee Regional Rail. Their claim that a third track can be added back from Wilmette to Clybourn is a doozy. Metra just built two brand new stations at Ravenswood and Peterson/Ridge that leave no room for a third track. And look at those bridges too, also brand new, that they claimed were capable of having a 3rd track.
The CNW/UP North line is Metra’s 3rd busiest line and is the fastest growing line post covid, recovering 75% of pre covid. Metra system wide is 59%. And its the only 2 track line among the top 4 lines (BNSF, UP NW, UP N, UP W). Metra won’t want to add traffic on one of their busiest lines. Sorry it’s a non starter.
Back in the days of 400 Streamliners, the C&NW ran many limiteds on those tracks.
I think you got too emotionally involved on one of the two sources and the source you fixated on has nothing to do with the KRM project.
Pretty sure it is a serious project at least from Milwaukee to Kenosha, they bought the land where the crossovers from the C&NW North Line to the Milwaukee Amtrak Stations used to be. As long as they own the land there I have hope. I don’t think Milwaukee would buy the land if the project was not serious.
The blurb on the High Speed Rail website was a summary Hijack of a Milwaukee and WisDOT project…they had nothing to do with (KRM). Milwaukee County was the last owner of the C&NW Depot in Milwaukee, WI and was responsible for tearing it down. The study and rail plan cities Milwaukee - Racine- Kenosha trains but they really want Milwaukee to Chicago trains. They are just moving ahead with what they can do in the near term without getting involved in the politics South of the Border. Wisconsin’s plan is for passenger train corridors on both Chicago to Milwaukee lines (former C&NW North Line along with former Milwaukee Road line) with the last remaining C&NW line being freight only and shared by CPKC and UP. Currently $80 million project under way in Milwaukee to produce a 4 track mainline just South of the Amtrak station for a short stint and route CPKC trains via Muskego Yard and avoid the Amtrak station. They are doing that to ramp up capacity South of the Amtrak station on the CPKC line to carry more Amtrak frequencies. The plan is to make the Borealis a seperate Chicago to Milwaukee frequency to start and add I think 2 more trains beyond that. Once they finish expansion on the Amtrak / CPKC line I believe they will focus on KRM again.
Not really. Here is a ORG from 1941 just before the war slowed down the trains.
Only the 400 took 75 minutes. The Commuter took 90. The Valley 105. The rest averaged about 2 hours/120 minutes.
Metra’s fastest express train Chicago-Kenosha takes 90 minutes. With no 3rd track no CHI-MIL train is going to go faster and then they still have to get from Kenosha to MIL, so another 30 minutes or 120 in total.
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This KRM study is realistic but note that the first talk of it dates from at least the 1990s.
It makes total sense and it gives people living in any town between Chicago and Milwaukee a way to get to any other town. Just like NJ Transit and Septa give people a way to get from any town between NYC and PHIL to any other town.
Like the NEC there and CHI-MIL Amtrak only serves a few cities between these corridors.
I did that to save on high Amtrak NEC fares when I lived in NY and wanted to go to Philly. Example $68 one way for mid day tomorrow. And NJ Transit sold Septa fares and vice versa so I only had to buy tickets once. Combined they were a bit less than 1/2 Amtrak.
Granted Amtrak fares CHI-MIL are reasonable in comparison to the NEC but they’re still $28 walkup. Metra CHI-KEN is $6.75 and just $7 weekends round trip. I would assume KEN to MIL fares would be comparable. So again less than 1/2 the price.
And if I got too emotionally involved its because I was there. I was a speaker among several at the time. They the speakers all dropped out. Because we weren’t allow to talk about CHI-STL yet the audience would ask why after $2 bills spent the trains weren’t any faster.
I think there is still hope. They just need to finish what they started.
In regards to KRM, it started back when I was a kid and keeps recycling and getting the study updated, though Milwaukee bought the land about 10 years ago with the iteration before this one. They have not sold the land yet and WisDOT is not fully in the game as it is focused on Amtrak service. Though WisDOT was fairly involved with C&NW passenger service in the last few years in Wisconsin. I believe they facilitated the Depot consolidation in Milwaukee. They also forged an agreement with C&NW to run their long distance bi-levels to the North Woods in exchange for approval of train abandonments elsewhere…I think I read that somewhere.
I think if you could find a TT from 1960, you might find streamliners passing scoots.
Back then it was ICC and ultimately Amtrak.
Was there a 3rd track back in C&NW days when they ran the 400, commuter, and Valley?
Does the KRM plan involve (re?)installing a second track north of Kenosha?
There were some north suburban stretches of CNW 3rd track but removed after 1980. Several new 2-track bridges were also installed
I have one from 61. I’ll post it. Looks like the only Milwaukee express that would have passed any other train looks like only the inbound Commuter 400.
Some other commuter expresses passed up locals but only from Kenosha.
Green Bay and Peninsula 400s also
All CNW intercity trains ended when Amtrak started including to/from Milwaukee. Amtrak did get those bilevels and used them on various routes out of Union.
My guess is that Amtrak didn’t want to also have to set up at North Western Station and there was no feasible way to get into Union.
Besides the Milwaukee Road still ran trains CHI-MIL-MSP and that was the only route left. The 400 CHI-MIL-MSP ended 1963.
I rode my bike to where the Blommer factory was. It’s idle now and up for sale. Likely condos. It’s Chicago’s hottest market. Track not used for some time. There is no connection to Union now and no evidence there ever was any ROW.
Track also goes east from Blommer over the River but no track east of River. Bridge has been “permanently “ up for decades. The CNW had its original Chicago terminal near where the Merchandise Mart is today. But with just that one track over that bridge they quickly outgrew it and moved to Madison Street now Ogilvie.
Track south to Blommer. Dead ends there. CNW tracks are overhead to Ogilvie.
Blommer rail dock just past CNW overhead.
Track north of Blommer. Split to right goes to bridge over River.
Track east to bridge over River hidden in the weeds. To get to Union high rise condo building on right would need to be bulldozed. Tracks leading to Union from Milwaukee CPKC are just on other side of building to right.
Third track only from Chicago (Clybourn) to Evanston/Wilmette. About 10 miles. Track was taken out shortly after Amtrak started.
Never had much functionality once CNW ended Chicago - Evanston locals in the 50s. CNW as part of bilevel push pull modernization ended nearly all inside Chicago stations that had CTA service.
Looks to me that they ran ahead of locals the whole way.