In an older issue of GR, I saw pictures of a layout built three feet above the ground. I like that idea because of the low maimtainance factor. It looked like treateed wood was used but could not identify the roadbed construction methods used. has anyone out there done this type of layout? If so, could you supply a few ideas?
Hi, I see no one has answered your question, so I’ll give it a go. I’ve seen lots of railways at the national conventions I’ve been to, have seen different treatments. Some use retaining wall stones, round rocks, treated wood, or bricks. Guess it depends on what you have around or have free access to (such as rocks), or have the budget for (have someone do it for you).
The only issue I can think of is this:
If your elevated railway is temporary, no problem since most are put up for temporary use at places designated for gatherings of enthusiasts. This makes access convient to your model and the layout. However…
If you are planning a PERMANENT elevated layout you have a serious issue regarding weather and track placement. Most elevated layouts are done with track HARD FASTENED to the roadbed. (Nails, screws, glue etc.) since most elevated roadbeds are wood. If masonary, other methods are used to fasten the track but in all but the most moderate of climates this is a serious problem for rails. They expand and contract with temperature changes and usually require a “floating” roadbed of some sort to accomodate the climate changes. i.e. If you live in Vermont and nail a track to a wooden roadbed this summer, you can count on replacing most of it next spring. At the very least, many of your track connections are going to have separated during the winter and may well come back together again as the temperature warms up, swelling and distorting your rails in the process. If you are a live steamer, this is a bit more forgiving for your layout but if you run electric trains, count on long hours of de-bugging your connections next spring. For the track that is still intact that is.
On the other hand, if you can devise a way to construct an elevated track system layed out with a moveable roadbed like crusher fine ballast, I’d have to say you will be OK.
The only point being that garden railways have shown to be most maintenence free as to track when the roadbed allows the track to swell and shrink with climactic changes as a somewhat single unit. Just like in the full sized world, It just simply needs to be able to ‘wiggle’ a little bit with the weather.
Permanantely attaching track to a fixed roadbed of any kind, elevated or not, is generally asking for big trouble.
Regards,
LDH
If you are interested in building an elevated GR E-mail me at Datsmar@bellsouth.net and I’ll e-mail some pictures of the one I have built. It runs from 30" to 36" above the ground and is about 40’ by 17’ with double track. I live on the coast of MS and it gets so hot here I built a metal roof over the whole thing. I am just waiting for the weather to cool a little more before adding a lower double run.
I used treated lumber and white Kool Seal roofing seal as the base for the chicken grit and layed track over it. It held up fine for the first summer and last fall I put the roof over it.
Lawrence
I live in Minnesota with a frost depth of 42" and all of my track is elevated. None of my riseres are IN the ground but float ON the surface much the same as ground level track on a bed of crushed rock. This prevents the frost from pushing my riseres up and causing a lot of problums. A 2" X 6" X 6" pad made of “TREX” is screwed to the bottom of each riser to prevent the riser from sinking into the ground and to prevent rot. “TREX” is a man made wood/plastic product, see… www.trex.com to learn more about this versatile material. I make my riseres from 2" X 4" treated lumber because it’s cheaper than “TREX”. However, I use the “TREX” for my sub roadbed by ripping it into 1/2" X 1 1/2" splines or strips on my table saw. Then I rip a few splines at 3/4" X 1 1/2" and cut off pieces 4" long and 6" long to be used as spacers between the splines. Laying four splines on the ground the 6" spacers are placed vertically between the ends of the 1/2" splines leaving 3" of the spacers sticking out that will be used to connect to the next section. The splines are also in a vertical position. At this point I have a “TREX” sandwich of splines and spacers that I clamp togather. Then from each side I drive in plated deck screws that are long enough to reach OVER half way through the “sandwich”. Now, every 16"-18" insert a group of 4" spacers between the splines and clamp these together and drive in the screws. This will yield a straight section of roadbed, if I need a curve I simply bend the splines as I insert the spacers. Spline roadbed made of “TREX” will form free flowing transition curves with very good vertical strength so risers can be as far apart as 3’ on straight sections. Sub roadbed built this way will have openings between the splines so that water will run off quickly. If I want to ballest my track I staple landscaping fabric or fiber glass window screen to the top of my roadbed and then SCREW the track in place over that. To keep my ballest from falling off I bond it in place with “CONCRETE BONDING ADHESIVE”. This
Elevated is the only way to go (not really, but I like it). Mine is only 18" up in the back and about 9" in the front, but oh what a difference it makes in viewing, operating and maintaining. My track is all free floating in ballast (crusher fines). This will be the fifth Winter season in Colorado without a single track problem of any kind ( I recommend rail joiners highly). My 20’ X 30’ layout is boxed in with 4"X6" pressure treated landscape timbers staked together with rebar. If you go any higher than 18", you should use some sort of “Deadman” timbers to keep the walls from leaning out on you. Only problem I have had is one timber that warped pretty bad. This may have been prevented if I had used 3 stakes per timber length instead of 2. They are a lot of work initially, but well worth it! Good luck.
Del Tapparo
D&L Garden Railroad
I have an elevated track system that is accessible by catwalks due to its height. This is because the original inside model railway was already at the 6’ 10" level. I ran it outdoors in 2001 and am now entering my third winter with relatively few problems for the roughly 120 feet which is outdoors. I do have to make some minimal adjustments in the springtime, but less than one would think considering that this is a subarctic environment.
I did not read the replies above but just a thought, I know two raised RRs that the folks have to keep climbing up onto it to work on it, I think thats harder. I have an odd shaped yard and I raised the areas needed during run times and loading of trains on the track when visitors come. Live steamers call it a steamup bay, so I use their priciples for company at open houses.
tdelancey, when you asked about track “built 3’ above the ground” were you asking about track on some sort of solid roadbed with risers holding it up and the scenery extending from the ground to track height. OR were you asking about raised beds formed by retaining walls then backfilled with earth to create a level area?
OLD DAD
Sorry for my english , but i am french and i live in the thouth of France (Toulon) and i have a G train : Aristocraft & Bachmann ( Shay ) - One another of live steamer . I bigining a track construction at 3’ 1/2 above the ground. The best support in my idea is iron in L form. What do you thing about that ?
Phil
Well Phil, my French is nonexistent and my English is poor so I keep a spell checker close by my side.
Iron will eventually rust and wood will eventually rot. My track is also built above the ground level on a product made from recycled plastic trash. http://www.trex.com
There may be a French equivalent, check your local building supply outlets.
I hope this helps…OLD DAD
olddad:
WHAT ARE THE RISERS AND SPLINES? I am VERY new to this. Do you nail the track to the wtrex? I am in MIchigan so am glad to chat with you.
suzyQ
Thank you for your answer ; but I don’t find in europe for Trex.
With many & frequently paints , iron may be a good solution specially for change of temperature because dilatation is the same with rail.
Regards
Hi suzyQ,
Welcome to the addiction we call Garden Railroading.
To answer your question, splines are the long thin slats that are formed into the roadbed and risers are the legs that hold the roadbed at the height needed.
However, I feel that a spline roadbed system may be a bit premature for someone just getting into garden railroading.
It all depends on your level of skill with a table saw and a few hand tools.
I don’t know what your site is like so its hard for me to give advice as to what type of roadbed you should use.
The one thing to remember when just starting out in this hobby is this…KEEP IT SIMPLE,
roadbed, track plan, scope and cost untill you find your way around then expand into the full space you have.
Hope this helps…OLD DAD
Old Dad;
THanks for the explanations and the advice. I am rather handym have a chop saw, table saw and know I can ruin a good piece of wood in a fes sec with my router! LOL
But, I had thought to use that plastic wood as a base for the track rather than a traditional roadbed. I planned to sorta kerf it for drainage. I now realize that expansion and contraction might be a problem if I affix the track. What are your thoughts? I do intend to have an elevated area up a mountian and maybe with a mountain pass and a trestle bridge. But, I realize that planning is the most important. How do you cope with the heat/freezing contractures?
SuzyQ
SuzyQ;
Some of my spline roadbed has been in place for about ten years with NO expansion or contraction problems. This older section is made from CEDAR rather than TREX. On the newest section TREX was used for the splines and the “feet” under the risers, with the risers them selfs made from treated 2x4 and 2x6 lumber. NO problems on this section either.
Spline roadbed has a resilient quality that allows it to move with changes in temperature so affixing you track should not cause any concern.
My track is all hand spiked rail on redwood ties with each and every tie nailed to the roadbed with NO gauge problems or gaping of the rail sections. SPLINE ROADBED IS A VERY STURDY, RELIABLE AND FLEXABLE ROADBED SYSTEM. I wrote this in upper case to emphasize how much I favor this system.
As far as drainage goes, the spacers between the splines create gapes allowing water to run off quickly.
Your plans to have an elevated track on a mountain side will be easy to buiild with spline roadbed since it can be placed at ANY height (within reason of course) even below grade or in tunnels.
Keep me posted…OLD DAD
I’ve also been thinking of building an elevated outdoor railway. LGB put out a how-to book several years ago showing a line built in Europe, Denmark I think. The builder used a wood frame and wire mesh instead of a solid top. The track and structures were placed on the wire mesh. A small size aggregate was spread over the track and open areas. Any rainfall will just pass through the stone and mesh. The track will float and should act like ballasted track laid on the ground.
hdavis -
Please keep in mind that the maximum grade which you want to deal with is 5%. That translates 5 inches of height, either up or down, for every 100 inches of track length. Even 5% is quite steep but that is the max. The reason being is not so much of your train not being able to go up the grade, its when it comes down. The power setting used to get your consist up the grade will be way to much for it to come down. You want to set a speed for the train and let it run. If you have to slow it down to get it down the incline then you will not be a happy camper. Please consider grade when planning your layout. Hope to see more posts by you in the future. Good Luck and have fun.
Pete
gmstm-
If you are planning a elevated structure to place your track make sure you sink the post far enough in the ground so you don’t encounter any type of warping caused by heaving in the winter. I’m sure the ground freezes in TN so that is something to consider.
I used the wire mesh method on the deck of the “John Adams” bridge on the GGRW. Over the past 2 years I have lost no stone. It has held up quite nice. Good Luck to you as well, hope you find the forums informative. Remember, keep it fun.
Pete
hay pete, thanks for the infor on the grade. i was thinking about one forth of an inch for each foot. so i was fairly close. the main thing i am having prolbems with is, what scale to go with and type of power .