planning a new layout HO scale with a hiiden staging with access from both sides of that area.
1/2 inch plywood baseboards on stardard L-girder benchwork, probably Woodlands Scenic foam roadbed
Probably will have catenary as my prototypetypes are mainly DB electrics (such as the ICE train and German diesels)
My concern is whether a 3 inch difference in elevation between the 2 layers is sufficient for access to the staging for basic operation and maintenence. May have to get my hands in etc
As I am determined my limit to grades to a maximum if 2.5% , i need to keep these levels fairly close together, Will install rerailers in the hidden staging to limit the need for access and may be able to have a small removable area or two in the upper layer (if necessary for access)
Can give more info if anyone wishes to emal me at cschmaman@bigpond.comI tried to attach GIF file images from my 3rdPlanit design, to this post without success seems I would first have to save them somewhere on the web. Can of course forward directly by email
Hi Cedric, In order to Post photos or files, they must first be posted in a Host,(eg. Photobucket.com). You first establish a free account with Photobucket. Choose a name for the “My Albums” of model railroad photos. Below each photo, there will be four options. Click on the IMG option. Momentarily, the word “Copied” will appear,(which means that the photo has been copied to the Clipboard. For my thumbnail photos, I click on the square and URL rectangle below, and then click on Edit on the upper Tool Bar, then scroll down to Copy, and click on it. Either way, you next go back to the Trains.com Forum (to which you are registered). Either start your own Thread (as you just did), or click on Reply, to add your text and photos to someone elses Post. Type in your text, and then click on ctrl V and the lengthy code of the photo will appear below your text. Scroll down to Post. Click on it, and soon, your text and photo will appear on the Trains.com Forum Thread. It’s really not complicated, once you go through the steps. You can always correct or delete photos or text, by clicking on Edit… above your Posted Thread. Bob Hahn
You’ve identified the problem right there. I assume your plan is to have the staging below your layout. How many staging tracks will you have? With 1 or 2, you can have access from the side, but if you’re talking about a 6-track staging yard below deck, well, that’s going to be very difficult to get to.
I would seriously look into some sort of pull-out drawer mounted on rollers. It would be a bit of an engineering challenge to set up, but it has the advantage of easy access to all the tracks. Besides that, the “transfer-table” like arrangement would eliminate the need for a turnout ladder, and give you longer staging tracks in the same space.
Another option is to provide a liftoff section above the staging tracks for access. This is pretty simple to arrange. It gets a bit more complicated if your layout plan calls for surface tracks directly above the staging, but it’s still a possibility.
That means more clearance since you have to allow for the catenary above the space for the equipment.
Not a chance. Remember the 3" is railhead to railhead. So subtract the roadbed (1/4") and the plywood (1/2") that leaves on 2 1/4" between to rail on the lower level and the BOTTOM of the upper level (assuming there are no wires, supports, controls, switch linkages, etc to take up some of that air space.
If you have catenary and want to be able to access it, I would say that you will need something on the order of 8" to a foot. Minimum spacing will be about 4" which would leave about 3 1/4" clear less the catenary so about 2 1/2 to 3" for the equipment. You will be hard pressed to reach in there, so you will have to make the level above the staging removeable to do maintenance or rerail anything.
Place a couple of pieces of flex track side by side on the bench then prop a piece of foam or even cardboard 3 1/2 inches above the track.
Now reach in there and try to rerail a car on the back track while there are a couple of cars on the front track. Try to pick up a car off the back track and remove it.
You will now be well aware of the problem and will have a much better understanding of how much space you need for that staging area.
Turn your hand sideways and measure the height – my hands are small and measured 3"-3.5". Also, as Mister Beasley notes about catanery – at least “a rail” needs attached to conduct electricity to live overhead and/or a non-destructive running-surface for pantographs.
The NMRA recommends a minimum of 3 inches from the railhead to anything above - which means that the railhead-to-railhead depth for the described subgrade/roadbed/track combination is about 3 3/4 inches. With that, anything over one track wide is effectively inaccessible.
That doesn’t mean that the situation is impossible. As Mr. Beasley said, it would be possible to use a big transfer table built on kitchen cabinet hardware - just be gentle when moving the rig or you’ll have a lot of cars on their sides. Or you can try my technique for accessing a staging yard that has to fit BETWEEN the L-girders supporting the trackwork of my main station/subdivision yard. In case of disaster the entire staging yard is rigged to drop down about 15 inches, using the technique John Armstrong described as a, “Dehydrated canal lock.” Without that, access wouldn’t be difficult, it would be impossible!
The absolute minimum railhead to railhead clearance on my layout is 3 1/4 inches. The upper level is a steel stud, layed rain gutter fashion, with Atlas flex track anchored to the steel with latex caulk.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with LOTS of hidden staging)
My advice is don’t do it, unless it’s absolutely necessary. I have a hidden staging yard under one of the towns on my layout and from what I was taught the general rule of thumb is you should be able to stick your arm in as far as you need to go and still be able to manipulate cars etc. Well it ain’t as easy as it sounds. I have plans down the road to eliminate this yard and just use it for everything storage tool, supplies etc. If you can lower it some more and possible use a half loop or one full loop of a helix to bring the trains from hidden staging to your main level at least you will have a little more room to work on things if necessary. With 3" how would you ever change out a switch machine or turnout etc. if something ever went wrong.
My new layout has been so far a lesson in what you can do but maybe shouldn’t do.
2.5% grade in it’s self is a pretty hefty climb if you don’t have the distance to stretch it out. How long of a run do you plan on using to make the 2.5% assent to main level? Reason I ask is I used approx. 20’ to climb 3.5% which I realize is steeper but as good sized train can not make it up the grade without a helper. Which for me is not biggie a I keep a 2-10-2 on a siding relegated for this task. Possibly a bit steeper climb or a little longer run will make for some more interesting operation.
