Gentlemen: EMD vs. GE is a fine topic for this list. But U.S. vs. U.K.? That will not encourage people to come to this forum and become interested in railroads, but will drive them away. That doesn’t serve any of our goals.
I totally agree!!
THANKS MARK!
Now let me say somehting that is not so BLANTLY OBVIOUS.
You know why you like them? BECAUSE you don’t own ONE! and that goes for everyone, even all you ALCO smootching fans.
You never owned an ALCO, the RR you worked for did. So when it continuously broke down, that was NO money out of your pocket was it? THE RR paid for the repairs. Now let’s jsut say ALCO came back from the dead, and bought out Ford and Started reapplying cheap parts, or shoty wiring, or whatever the problems were, and you just bought a brand new FORD-ALCO Mustang. HEY NOT BAD! it looks good, it wasn’t that expensive, and all the chicks are digging it. Then it starts CONTINUOUSLY BREAKING DOWN. even after you spend more then the ORIGINAL VEHICULE IS WORTH, would you still be saying… oh look this is the beauty, and it works so well…
NO?
then why are you saying that about an ALCO? put that shoe on your foot, pretend you bought an entire Fleet of ALCO PAS and they kept breaking down, you would be madder then wildfire, and don’t Bull S^&^ me and tell me that you wouldn’t be… If looks really counted in life, i’d have 3 Girlfriends, no joke. BUT THEY DON’T! Behind a “good looking” alco, is a rusted out pile of scrap that is likely to break down within the next five minutes!
and thats the EXACT same thing with a GE. EXACT, unless you own it, you really shouldn’t be saying it’s that nice, And trust me they aren’t… Whoever above said the computer had problems, was right. And sometimes we get them up here as replacements when our EMDs get tuned up, i’ll take the day off. Last time the IRC broke on a GE, and we got stuck. (IRC
I lived in England for a few years and I don’t think I was ever fingerprinted or photographed at any time when I lived there, or given any kind of ID – just a stamp in my passport. I guess that may have changed in the last 4 years, I haven’t been back. They did, however, give me a chest x-ray before allowing me in the country (only when I went over there to live, not when I was there on vacation).
On the other hand, when my husband and I moved back to the US and he needed to get a green card, we had to be interviewed, bring photos of us together to the interview, proof that we actually lived together, etcetera, and this was after we’d been married almost 4 years.
He finally got a very high tech resident alien card that has his picture, thumbprint, signature, and several various holograms on the front, and on the shiny silver back there’s another tiny photo of him and his signature, as well as minuscule pictures of all the presidents and all the state flags. Actually, it’s pretty neat.
–Nora
Dear Kevin:
Actually I DID own EMDs. And GEs. And Alcos. (A long time ago, to be sure.) I bought them all, I sold them all, I worked on them all, I thought they were all interesting, I learned something from everyone of them, and they all had their place.
I hope not to offend you by saying this, but one has to be very practical in these matters, and to me, at the time, it was all an economic equation. My company preferred EMDs because they were common, inexpensive, easy, and customers liked them. But make no mistake: Alco made a very good product for some applications, particularly switch engines (ask Relco), and GE came to make a very good product too (ask any Class I).
Let me repeat this: no one in the railroad business who has their job on the line would be so foolish as to allow any known bias in the selection of locomotives. People can and do make mistakes of judgement. But who would be so stupid as to throw money off a bridge – on purpose? Because that is what a bias is!
Please introduce me to that person, so I can catch the money. I need it!
You’ll be behind me, Mark![#ditto][#offtopic]
Ahem - excuse me - … And Ladies!
Mookie
HEY everyone!
It’s not often i decide to get tangled up in every one elses affairs, but this time i’m going to do it. This has to stop. Let’s face it, we all live on this earth, therfore it’s best to get along with everyone so your stay will be enjoyable. Mark is absolutely right, and Mark, when Kevin wrote his response he wasn’t directing it at you. Just so you know, but you probobly recognized that already. Let’s stop smashing each other on the head with rubber hammers, and realize that everyone is entitled to what they think. Maybe over in England they like GE’s better, i don’t know, But do you care? So they do, Excellent, great. This smashing each other down because they are of a different country is not necesary, and only shows what level of intelligence you are operationg on. Don’t get me wrong, the person who started this topic started that with the finger printing, but no one else had to bite. Then that opoened an entirely new jug of muffins with Sept 11th … NOT NECESARY! Just because the original poster started off with that, no one has to bring themselves 10 levels lower then they would normaly behave just so they can attempt to “one-up” the guy. Let him be, If he thinks so, great. If he thinks everyone is a lumberjack in Canada, Great. If he thinks we don’t have running water up here, excellent. Don’t let that get to you. It’s not worth getting in a flap over, because at the end of it all, they just wind up leaving with people upset, people angry, and people never comming back to this site. Mark was right, and even though I still can’t believe it, Kevin didn’t even get involved with US vs UK, normaly he gets an A for being an Idiot, but not this time. I saw a few peple on page one getting rather passionate about their responses, you know who you are, i’m not naming people, WHY? don’t bother, Just let it fly. That way, if you don’t respond, you’ll avoid the anger and resentment that will soon follow.
I dont know how this post turned into US vs UK,but I’d like to get back to EMD vs GE. You can’t beat the sound of a set of EMD’s climbing up Tehachapi grade.GE’s just don’t sound as good.
KevMacMan [8D]
Alco was like every other locomotive manufacturer. It produced some good products, it produced some bad ones. The 244 engine was not a good product. The 251 was a good engine. Because the 244 was not so good many railroads who had Alcos either traded the Alcos in on other new locos or reengined the Alco with an EMD engine. Some of these railroads never gave Alco another chance. Someone in another thread made a statement that railroads have a long memory. The Century line that Alco produced (C420, C424 and C425) was an excellent line of locomotives. You can find them TODAY still running. The railroads that maintained them
Ed…England is one thing…but Scotland and Wales…truly once in a lifetime…Kodak will have to give dad some stock options HEHE…I would never have Amtrak would held for a yard transfer…I always thought they had the highball green straight through…priorty you know…anyway thanks for the info…If you don’t mind, I’ll prolly come up with another Houston rail question in the future…Laterz…jon
Dear Kevin,
I must say that I resent your comments on Alco products. Firstly, they were little more than an inncacurate generaization of Alco products, just as is saying all EMD locomotives are shining examples of the locomoitve craft. Being an Alco fan, I greatly thank jhhtrainsplanes for his comments. Alco built the Big Boy, the FEF, the Challenger, the RS-3 (a locomotive preferred by one railroader who wrote a very good article in a Kalmbach publication, which I am sure you have read), the Century, and the PA (the PA’s were not that bad–if theyhad been the railroads would have retired them), and much more.
In addition, I know some people who harbor anti-EMD sentiment as opposed to the sadly prevalent anti-GE sentiment. If railroads dislike GE locomotives so much, then why is the Dash-9 quickly becoming a new kind of pseudo-standard on many lines??? And if GE products are so bad, then why is the Dash-9 on the top ten list of locomotives in the Trains Magazine motive power issue?
Respectfully yours,
Daniel
I’m sorry Trainjunky if you resent my comments, But they stand. Period. End of sentance.
Selling 200 locomotives and Change? Thats Terrible! If Ford only Sold 300 Mustangs a year to people, they would Scrap the project. I looked up ALCO in the Dictionary and this is the definition
Railraods Coast to coast, Joe Welsh, Printed in 2003, published first Edition 1999
ALCO, American Locomotive Corporation, Builder of Train locomotives, Came out with Various types of locomotives, and I’m not going to name them all, but this is the important part.
So what does that tell you right there? Like i said, It obviously was not you putting in orders for these Locomotives, and yes they may look good and swell and evedently looks count for everyhting in your world, which is fine- and I have no beef with that, But when people start having a craze over big Jalopys then it is time to you know, get wise.
I know in Montreal, the commuter serice to this date, STILL RUNS an EMD F series, number 1304, the Pride and Joy of the force, over all of its service years it has needed very little repairs, just updating. We pride GM’s up here, Give me a GM any day, like i Said, if theres an GE at the head of the train, I’ll take the day off.
If theres an ALCO at the heasd end of the train, Provided its not in a miliion peces, i’d drive that thing home! I’d just be careful not to sneeze while im in it in case it falls to bits.
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Oh and to answer your Next Question Ge’s are mass produced Junk, that are produced way to fast, and are kind of like Windows Millenium Edition, Buggy and laggy… They are Cheap, Possibly because maybe they are made of Cheap parts, and they break down way to much
Maybe GE should start making Cosmetics with its new LExan, but it should back out of the Locomotive industry while it’s pride is intact, and the way thats going, it won’t be much longer.
Mark-
Can we take from this that you owned (in whole or part) a short line?
Tell us more details…(please)
LC
The Guys I know who drive and work on them trains, and who I get to talk to make it sound like there is no clear winner.
I would like to know how you drive a train? all i hear you saying is what somebody else is saying. and that you dont have first hand knowladge of how each loco is differant. or how each loco runs. the dash 9 was bought because of a power shortage and when you could buy 2 ge locos for the price of 1 emd the bean counters chose that route. the railroads are now buying emd units to replace the ge units that are done after only 5 years service. but yet i am still running 1974 model emd sd 40s. and making it in . but as kevin says if i have a ge on the point it is a long day and ussually get a emd off another train to get in with.
I like GE more than EMD. Why? I don´t know!
Possible: My first model was a GE!
When I start with US models and railroads in the mid 90´s the GE´s (last -8 and -9) looks very modern, the EMD´s looks older. Okay, for myself.
Now after years I realized that I like, and unlike, only railroads!
Today my biggest modelfleet are the EMD SD70´s in many variations (spartan cab (a Conrail unit - one of five eastcoast models I have), M-cab, I-cab (ATSF SD75I) and the MAC`s! And I have absolute more EMD´s then GE´s!
Each manufactor has his history. And when a manufactor was gone it becomes often a gloryous shine.
Alco is such a firm - as a builder of steamengines, Alco is my No.1 Bigboy, Challenger, FEF-3, yeah! - as a Dieselbuilder: No thanks! I have some UP Alco diesel but Alco isn´t such a glory for me!
So I agree with the article in th January issue of Trains magazine. The Also PA´s are overrated!!! It´s a nice locomotive but succesful?
And I don´t like the Pennsy paintschemes.
I hate the new EMD cab with that new nose. But when there´s a good model of a UP GE SD90AC-II I will buy this too! This engine is part of the modern UP history! And when I model the modern UP history this model is a must.
But I have no GP7 or GP9!
Okay this are models and in 1:1 I like each train that climbs Tehachapi or Cajon! Powered with GE or EMD. It´s impressive and wonderful
But the sound of a twocycle SD40 of 45 engine that starts a train in a siding at the UP line above Cajon was better san the four cicle 7FDL16 in a GE!
This only the sound!
I don’t think I can contribute anything to this debate which has turned into a farce. I think the origional question was “Why so much anti GE feeling…?”
Well, I’m only a train watcher. (I don’t think I can call myself a railfanatic anymore, Kevin seems to be fanatical lately.) I do not build trains, repair trains, or drive trains. I haven’t ever been apart of any railroad. Therefore, I don’t know the inner-workings of locomotives and can’t tell you which is better and why. But I can tell you the why there is so much anti-feeling for any particular brand of locomotive. It’s called politics. I’m not talking about elected officials or the president. Politics is all about bias. Why one thing promoted over another for sentimental reasons is politics. When the question is asked: “which do like?” and the answer is “EMD” (for example) and when asked “why?” and the answer is: “just because,” that’s politics.
When other railfans are biased toward certain brands and they’ve never had any experience with other than hearing rumors that’s politics. It’s also rediculous. C’mon… who sits around and pours over railroad books full locomotive statistics and logistics? I can tell you I’ve tried to look at the raw data and I can’t make heads or tails of it. How can I get a clear picture based on numbers alone? How can I make a fair assesment on numbers alone? I can’t and I can’t understand the person who does.
I base my likes on what I know and what I’ve been around. I liked the Santa Fe only because it was the railroad I saw the most in my life. I also like the BNSF now. I don’t see how and don’t expect a person who was born and raised in, let’s say, upstate Maine to have any opinion or likes of the Santa Fe or BNSF.
I also like the Dash 9s because that’s what’s most frequently seen here everyday. And I also like that they’re LOUD! I don’t care if they’re GE. I wouldn’t care if they were built by EMD, Alco, or even Baldwin for that matter. You get my drift?
Part o
Ahh yes…a day without an emotional GE vs. EMD vs. Alco vs. Lima vs. Baldwin vs Morris Kanoedson vs. Godzilla vs. Megalon debate is a like a day without air…
Heck, I could just stand in the hallway at work and hear the exact same argument, except its…
Chevy vs. Ford
McDonalds vs. Burger King
Coke vs. Pepsi…
The list goes on and on…
So since none of y’all have produced empirical, un deniable evidence that one is better than another …the collective y’all can borrow one of Ed’s clean socks and stuff it…
And for the record…Lockheed makes the best planes and Allison makes the best engines, but Hamilton Standard can keep thier stinkin props…
And Mookie is still wondering what “Light the blue touchpaper and retire” means!