Well I probably shouldn’t pass the recipe over this medium…but just about everyone in uniform, other uniforms too it would seem knows how to do it.
Mook…Jim can send you the instructions…
45144 …it was a Royal Sigs Sgt that originally showed me how to…we were in Mostar, Bosnia which at that time was under French command…and the sigs fellas invited us to join their mess since there were few of us and proceeded to get us in more trouble than …well…lots of trouble…but they did hook us up with a direct feed from their Sat TV which was nice too. He showed me the bomb trick because we didn’t have any fireworks to celebrate the 4th of July…or as they put it …the day they finally got rid of that pesky colony…and because they they delighted in annoying the French any time they could. I still have my Royal Sigs Berry.
I did forward it to da Mook and a few other people who I thought would enjoy it.
I work for a French owned company. When we find one of their screw ups and point it out to them (which if somewhat often) there smug reply is, “No Misure, we make no mistake”. They look down their nose at us. . . . and because they they delighted in annoying the French any time they could . . . annoy, yes I would love to annoy. Actually I would love to do more than annoy, but they do provide my paycheck each week. All of the service people I talk to that have been to France, tell me that the French treat them like . . . well you know like what. I can see I better close this now or things might get ugly real fast. [}:)] [;)] [:(]
It’s too bad that your feel that way. I wasn’t trying to make you mad I was only provoking you for an explanation and proof of your claims. Just saying GE is junk doesn’t make it so.
You accuse me of trying to start a barroom fight. That’s not the case at all. YOU are the one acting like the dude that gets made because some one looked at him funny, or accidently bumped into him, or thought he made a pass at his woman, just any made up eccuse to start a fight.
I’m sorry you’re pissed off at the world for not being in love with EMD and if you get angry over someone else’s favorable opinons of GE then I feel sorry for you. YOU should be the one to be ashamed.
I also didn’t accuse you of being drunk or on drugs. On the contrary I credited you on NOT being under the influence.
I’m am also not the one being credulant. I’m not the one who’s in love with EMD and has a closed mind on all GEs.
So, fine, walk away. Be ignorant and narrow-minded for all I care. But remember, if your going to make a claim I’m gonna call you on it if I don’t understand it or know it’s wrong.
I hope this isn’t the only incident you’ve based your opinion on. I had the same thing happen to me at St. Louis going to KC. I think it was a P-42 or the like that failed before we left, they had to get another unit from across the yard.
But really, who’s fault is that? GE, or the people that are supposed to be taking care of the equipment? A poorly maintained machine will evetually fail and cost more to repair than the preventative measures would have cost.
It’s too bad that your feel that way. I wasn’t trying to make you mad I was only provoking you for an explanation and proof of your claims. Just saying GE is junk doesn’t make it so.
You accuse me of trying to start a barroom fight. That’s not the case at all. YOU are the one acting like the dude that gets made because some one looked at him funny, or accidently bumped into him, or thought he made a pass at his woman, just any made up eccuse to start a fight.
I’m sorry you’re pissed off at the world for not being in love with EMD and if you get angry over someone else’s favorable opinons of GE then I feel sorry for you. YOU should be the one to be ashamed.
I also didn’t accuse you of being drunk or on drugs. On the contrary I credited you on NOT being under the influence.
I’m am also not the one being credulant. I’m not the one who’s in love with EMD and has a closed mind on all GEs.
So, fine, walk away. Be ignorant and narrow-minded for all I care. But remember, if y
I make no apology for what I said earlier. You can take it as arrogance if you wish. I have nothing against people from other countries or nationalitie, inded I have traveled the world and made friends with many wonderful people, however, there are bad people in this world of all kinds and I make no apology for myself or my countries efforts to protect its citizens. I doubt the Germans, French, Israelis or others would make any such apology for their actions on behalf of their own national interest either, so please don’t patronize me or anyone else here.
Don’t get me wrong…I strive to annoy Kevin BECAUSE he is Candien…why else would I do it? Because it’s fun to trade barbs with him? Nahhh…it’s because he’s a dude from the great white north (nord).
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QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman
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QUOTE: Originally posted by ironhorseman
It’s too bad that your feel that way. I wasn’t trying to make you mad I was only provoking you for an explanation and proof of your claims. Just saying GE is junk doesn’t make it so.
You accuse me of trying to start a barroom fight. That’s not the case at all. YOU are the one acting like the dude that gets made because some one looked at him funny, or accidently bumped into him, or thought he made a pass at his woman, just any made up eccuse to start a fight.
I’m sorry you’re pissed off at the world for not being in love with EMD and if you get angry over someone else’s favorable opinons of GE then I feel sorry for you. YOU should be the one to be ashamed.
I also didn’t accuse you of being drunk or on drugs. On the contrary I credited you on NOT being under the influence.
I’m am also not the one being credulant. I’m not the one who’s in love with EMD and has a closed mind on all GEs.
You talk about Ns having so many GE engines i have the roster of engines ( engineers get them here) and the totals are still 2,000 more emd units than GE units. But you say you want proof of why GE is trash. Well the only people who like the GE engines are conductors because of the wide body with a desk. WOW and all they use the desk for is to kick there feet up and go to sleep faster. from a running point train handling is a nightmare with a ge engine they load so slow and by the time you get them to load you lose 10 to 15 mph trying to pull a grade and then the slack finally goes out and you lose another 10 or so mph. then if they stay running they rattle and shack so bad that everything in the cab is lose and noisy. the electronic brakes are not dependable or should i say you can depend on them going out regularlly. you wont tear a train into with a GE as there is not enough power to do it.
Now lets talk quality the ns took delivery of several thousand dash 9 units and with the delivery of these units they also took delivery of rolling rust buckets. the 8900s came with rust around the little port window on both sides of the cab. ( the little window in front of the sliding side windows) Now if we was just comminting on spotty surfuce rust would be one thing im talking flacks ( slabs) of rusted breaking off pieces of metal that give you fresh air straight to the outside ( not good on winter days) and this contiued on to this day with even the 9700s. yea real quality the doors wont close tight and you haft to either readjust them to close or keep getting out of your seat to close them.
Mechanically they are the worst things going down the road. they shut down regularlly if they even think they will slip a wheel they drop their load. a emd just keeps on going while a ge just gives up. they use the cheapest wire they can find that brakes on a regular bases. ( wire the thing that carries electricity) this cause the unit to shut down. ive had several i
Dear wabash1 and kevinstheRRman,
I am happy that someone finally brought evidence into this arguement, in this case wabash1. However, I feel that I have even more convincing arguements in favor of Alco and GE.
I will begin with Alco. Currently, I see before me the Trains Magazine October 2002 and 2003 editions. In the October 2002 edition, Jack Wheelihan ranks the S1 and S2 locomotives in the 10 Best Locomotives article. Wheelihan, a 36 year veteran of the locomotive industry, says of the S1 and S2 thus:
“Truly a great switcher design. Maintainable by anyone in the shop, they took a beating as long as you kept their lubricants topped off. They had high tractive effort for their size and weight. Any railroad big or small could rely on them for any assignment.” He also descrribes them as “bullet-proof.” This is in complete contradiction to generalizations of Alcos as unreliable. In the October 2003 edition of Trains, Dorris Campbell, a former Erie Railroad engineer and fireman. said of the RS3s the following:
“We all thought the Geeps were wonderful when they arrived in Chicago, smooth and quiet…until we discovered how slowly they built up amperage for the traction motors when the throttle was opened and the diesel engine revved up. Apparently they were set up this way to ensure they wouldn’t pull trains apart when starting, but it made them too slow for switching.
The Alcos, in contrast, practically leaped to attention when we opened their throttles. The reminded me of a hot-rod Ford. And talk about pulling power! Three RS3s would sprint off with almsot anything the Erie chose to couple to them.” These statements show that at least some railroaders liked Alcos.
Now as for GEs, Jack Wheelihan says of the GE U25B:
“Thus started the high horsepower race with a customer-driven design backed by GE’s first-rate engineering and marketing team.”
And of GE’s DASH 9-44CW, Wheelihan (himself a former employee of EMD) says:
Ge’s are less expensive… Granted, So is the quality… Its like buying stuff at the sears or at JC penney, or buying somehting at Dollar Tree. Sure the Ties look the same, and are made of 100% polyester, but then after a few wears the dollar tree tie starts to come unraveled, and that flap in the back falls off, then one time you come to wear it and it’s in chambles. and theres your JC penney tie, even though you paid 19 more dollars for it, you will have that much more use out of it… Thats the difference between GE and EMD. Ge will break, fall apart NOT after its first use, but as time goes on, while EMD builds them stronger and more people/weather/anyhting resistant
Thats your difference.
Now as for ALCO, whoever is head of Stop polution or whatever the earth Green group is would have a screming ab-dab fit when they saw the locomotive was bilowing out enough smoke to make smokey the bear angry. Plus the noise pollution those locomtives give of, Makes the dead turn in their grave! Those things are so noisy, they make a Ge sound like a mime.
those are my problems with them Daniel, Althoguth i can honestly say i’ve never been in an ALCO, i jsut shutter to think of the noise inside the cab.
Dear kevinstheRRman,
I am amazed that I, a railfan, have done something that a proffessional railroader has not. I have been in the cab of operating Alco’s many times (primarily an ex-Southern Pacific S4), and can tell you that it is not particullarly noisy. Admittedly, it is noisier than those new “insulated cab” locomotives are, although I have never been in one of those insulated ones. However, the locomotive is over a half century old, and let’s face it: you didn’t become a railroader for peace and quiet. And if it keeps the conductor from falling asleep, you should be even happier [:)][:D]!
Now as for the polution aspect, we all know that railroads pollute less than other the amount of trucks required to move the same load. And I think that environmental organizitions have many more important things to worry about than a half-century old class of locomotives of which there are only four surviving examples anyway, most of which are in storag (weep, weep). Someone had a signature that said “one person’s noise polution is another’s train,” or something like that.
And finally let me point out that how the locomotive is maintained after it is purchased will have a much greater impact on the locomotive’s longevity than whether GE or EMD made it. If good qualities of maintenance are in place, then any locomotive can look forward to a long service life.
Let me, however, point out the one overarching pillar of railfanning, (and I would hope many railroaders observe this too): steam locomotives were, are, and always will be the greatest. Just think–six 2-10-2s shoving a drag up Cajon Pass, or doubleheaded Big Boys making the ground shake as the pull six miles of freight up Sherman Hill, or a J3a hauling the Twentieth Century Limited at 110 miles per hour. Compared to those, these arguements are insignificant: you may prefer EMD to GE, but I would hope you would prefer an FEF-2 to any diesel.
Years ago,I worked at a warehouse served by ATSF. At the time they used either an S2 or S4. One day they had a CF7.I asked the crew which they preferred, and they said the Alco.They said the CF7 loaded too slow, and it was too hard to see a man on the ground.So, in switching service, Alco is better.[:)]
The only trucks, and SUVs I’ll buy are Chevrolets. Have four of them. For me Chevys have been nothing but reliable. Chevy=GM, EMD=GM
Also, I grew up a stone throw from the BN’s tracks, and BN was predominately an EMD road. Probably the reason that the green, and cream SD70MACs are my favorite locomotives of all time. (sorry steam guys). SD40-2s a close second.
Same reason that some guys vote Republican, and some vote Democrat. It’s just what you grow up believing in.
As far as the bean counters are concerned, the same correlation could be made in the trucking industry. Every trucker wants a extended hood Peterbilt. But most fleets weigh driver comfort, fuel mileage, resale (somewhat), purchase price, etc,etc. This is why the big guys buy Century Freightliners, and leave the Kenworths, and Peterbilts to the owner/operators.
Class 1s have a multitude of factors to weigh, none of which are related to railfan eye candy.
And i see you bring a magazine into this. if i was to quate things from a book or magazine that i read. then maybe i would think it is gospil also. but i bring school of hard knocks tried and true real world to the table. and i once read a article that said jesse james was a saint. and al capone was a preacher. ( catholic if i remeber correctly) ok so lets break this down into something a railfan might be able to understand.
ok some guy says that a s1 and s2 was the best switcher there ever was. his qoute. did he run the things . you didnt say this and from what he says with out any facts to back it up is his opinion. ( just as kevin and myself have given ) and if these engines are so great where are they today. just like the ge engines where are they today. I see where a gp 38 is used in switching and road service duel perpose and still working today is that cost efficient you bet. then you say that ge or alco ( you keep jumping back and forth) loaded slow to keep from pulling a train apart. but the emd loaded right up. never pulled one apart., and if you handle a train properly you wont. 36 year vet of what railroad pr. he didnt work on these or run them. and its no secrete that trains mag is pro ge. every couple of months you see mark on here bragging about ge engines. and he is allowed his opinion.
then you jump ages ahead to dash 9s what about all those good emd engines still running today. that will pull anything you throw or couple them to. the last dash 7 ge i saw was 7 years ago thank god. and those sd 50s are still going. but back to the dash 9s they are a solid locomotive. ( where) they cost less. ( thats the truth and it shows) after they get off the plant the warrenty says if it breaks you get both pieces. so back to the school of reality 1 sd 70 will out do 2 ge dash 9s. if i couple a sd 70 to 4000 tons i will get there just as fast as 2 ge dash 9s. add rain to the rails and ill get there faster with 1 emd. the only way you will put a ge in notch 5 and enjoy th
I’m new, but I’ve been fascinated by this thread. You really can’t argue with people like wabash1, who deal with the things everyday. No matter how many magazines you read (biased or not), it can’t really compete with first hand experience. I mean, these things (the GEs) wouldn’t have gotten a bad rap (deserved, or not) if the people that operated them on a daily basis didn’t have rough times with them to begin with!
To wabash1 or anyone else with first hand experience: I am curious about how SD50s, SD60s and SD70s compare. (Do they pull about the same…etc)
Dear wabash1,
Forgive me. I was writing under the assumption that you had read the Trains Magazine Motive Power Issue. Jack Wheelihan (a former EMD employee, no less) is a rebuilder of locomotive components and a steam engineer.
Dee Brown, an engineer who has driven many Alcos, said of the Alco RS1 and S4 the following:
“Excellent. They didn’t have enough power to spin their wheels. They’d drag anything you put behind them.”
And of the RS3, he said:
“For suburban service, the hands-down winner. It came as close to steam-engine acceleration as a diesel can get.”
All three classes are on his top ten list of diesels.
As for GE’s, if the railroads don’t like them, how come BNSF is making DASH-9’s their super fleet? And let me say, I think we are all a bit biased. I, to use Kevin’s metaphor, attend the church of Alco (and think of that wonderful place called Schenectady) for their steamers for the most part, and so support their diesels. But everyone hear has a favorite brand, and yours is EMD. And once you have a favorite, it’s easy to idolize your favorite and demonize its enemies…I know: I do it with UP and BNSF.
But remember: steam was, is, and always will be king!