The article in April 1949 TRAINS is considered to be the first of the annual Motive Power Surveys.
FYI: The April 1949 DPM Article The shift from Steam was reprinted with new color photos in the 2014 Classic Trains special edition Trains of the 1940s. the 1950 MPS The Locomotive in 1949 was included in the 2020 CT special More Trains of the 1940s.
After the UAW strike hit EMD on Wednesday November 21, 1945 there were still some employees working. Management and administration were working. The Sales Department was still pushing the product. There’s mention of 1500 horsepower diesel orders in Trains January 1946. The Engineering department was still working. Testing of the 291 demonstrator was ongoing during the strike. The last EMD shipping date for 1945 is shown as Friday November 30th. So some folks did that work. Was the parts department open? What’s especially interesting on this is that both Sales and Engineering were still working during the strike. Ed in Kentucky
It’s not too surprising that Sales and Engineering were still at work. Neither was part of the bargaining unit. Sales is probably commission work and the Engineering staff was probably on the monthly payroll.
When a particular Union strikes, the members of that Union are on strike and most likely will set up Picket Lines. Members of other Unions most likely will honor the picket lines of those on strike. Non-Union member most likely will not honor the picket lines and will attempt to conduct normal business operations.
It was 75 years ago this month that EMD published at least two operating manuals for the F2 diesel. The manuals were for the Rock Island and Southern F2s that would be delivered in July 1946. The entire Rock Island F2 operating manual is hosted on the fallen flags website by George Elwood. See http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/manual/f2-om.pdf
Let me jump in with a couple points - I haven’t read every word of the previous posts so sorry if I duplicate something someone already wrote…
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I believe GM stopped making FTs largely because they had 5 years of input from railroads of changes / improvements that they wanted.
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FTs certainly could M.U. with other engines. The problem was that, as designed, FTs were meant to be A-B units, with a drawbar between the two units. GM did jerry-rig a coupler set up for ATSF, and developed the FTSB (FT Short Booster) so railroads could run an A-B-A set of FTs (although there was no room for a steam boiler, so this could only be used for freight trains.) One of the changes made with the F2 and all later Fs was having the trucks spaced differently so a railroad could have couplers on both ends of both units if they wished.
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Since FTs were only A-B sets as designed, you either had 2700 HP (one A-B set) or 5400 HP (two A-B sets back-to-back). Mainline freights generally needed around 4000 HP, so you had too much or too little. Many railroads did buy F2 and F3 A units to add to FT sets to have an A-B-A set with 4050 or 4200 HP.
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As I think was noted, the F2 was supposed to increase horsepower from the FTs 1350 to 1500, but couldn’t due to one part that GM couldn’t get at the time. Once that part was available, they started making 1500 HP engines and re-designated it as the F3. Otherwise the F2 and F3 were the same engine.
Does anyone have any insight as to the where and when EMD tested the D8B, Dog Eight Baker, generator used on the F2? The D8B was the generator from the FT mated with the D14 companion alternator. Ed in Kentucky
If the answer to this has survived passing the edge of history, I’d think Preston Cook would either know or would have an idea where to get it.
I would ask this question over on RyPN as you’re much likelier to get a detailed answer there.
Thanks Overmod for the good advice. I’ll write Preston Cook and ask. And with that thought there is a bit of F2 information in an article by Cook’s mentor at EMD: W. A. Gardner. See “Delivering EMD’s Locomotives” in the November 1980 issue of Trains, pp 50-60. Gardner was on hand to deliver B&M’s F2 units.
Ed in Kentucky
Here’s another question that may have already escaped history. Does anyone have any insight as to the where and when EMD tested high speed gearing in the F2/F3 before production started in July 1946? Remember the very first production F3s went to Santa Fe with 56:21 gearing. It seems like EMD would have speed tested the concept before any production locomotives were built. Likely candidates for high speed test runs would be Alton, Burlington and Santa Fe, others?. Ed in Kentucky
Don’t know if EMD tested the high speed gearing. I do know that the F3’s the B&O ordered for passenger service were delivered with high speed gearing. Gearing the engines retained when the were put into freight service on the B&O’s Chicago Division between Willard and Chicago. Making up time on Time Savers and other ‘hot’ trains. PSR was not in effect in the late 50’s and early 60’s.
Remember that Santa Fe had a number of passenger equipped four unit FT sets with high speed gearing in service for some time before their F3s appeared. These continued in service until a large number of F3s were available for service.
Both EMD and Santa Fe had a lot of experience with high speed gearing on on E units back to 1937 and earlier on the specific Chicago Los Angeles service.
There were gear problems with the first Santa Fe F3 set 16LABC, but I don’t recall the detail.
Peter
While it’s true that Santa Fe had FTs with 95 MPH gearing, what they didn’t have and no one had until 1946 was an F unit cab with a steam generator, water tanks and 30 foot truck center spacing. Santa Fe had FT boosters equipped with steam generators. Southern 6700-6701 were the first such units that combined water tank and steam generator in an F unit cab. It would seem that EMD would have tested this concept before production began. The EMD 291 demonstrators had steam generators in the booster units, but not in the cab units. Perhaps Southern 6700-6701 did some actual test work. The June 1, 1946 F2 Operator’s Manua
It occurs to me that while Mr. Goding’s time at EMD was later, he started in comparable testing and might have worked with people at EMD who would have decided the testing required for higher-geared F units. You might PM him.
It occurs to me that while Mr. Goding’s time at EMD was later, he started in comparable testing and might have worked with people at EMD who would have decided the testing required for higher-geared F units. You might PM him. (I’d have sent this as a PM if Kalmbach had kept their word and fixed the forum glitches in spring 2021)
The people involved in any testing would have mostly or all been retired by the time I joined EMD. But I do suspect there would have been some testing done to insure stable running and choose the wheel profile for the speed. From my experience with the swing hanger 2-axle truck, without modern yaw dampers, truck hunting with new 1:20 wheels and tight pedestal liners would have started around 75-80 mph, much lower with worn wheels. I did hear from a colleague that the Santa Fe used cylindrical profile on their passenger F units but don’t know when they started doing that, they could have been delivered that way. AFAIK, the 1:40 profile was a more recent (1970’s) compromise to keep flange wear at a more reasonable rate.
Dave
Santa Fe tested #17, #51 and #164 in the October 1946 time frame. The F3 set #17 had a locked pinion gear on one of the units. Additionally relays and electrical interlocks failed and cylinder heads had to be changed out due to high heat. See page 172 of Early Diesel Daze. The relays and electrical trouble sounds like the same thing W. A. Gardner encountered with the B&M F2s in October 1946.
Ed in Kentucky
While it’s true that Santa Fe had FTs with 95 MPH gearing, what they didn’t have and no one had until 1946 was an F unit cab with a steam generator, water tanks and 30 foot truck center spacing. Santa Fe had FT boosters equipped with steam generators. Southern 6700-6701 were the first such units that combined water tank and steam generator in an F unit cab. It would seem that EMD would have tested this concept before production began. The EMD 291 demonstrators had steam generators in the booster units, but not in the cab units.
The original queston referred to the inroduction of Santa Fe F3 units.
As far as I know Santa Fe never had an F series cab unit with a steam generator, hence my reference to the FTs, which also did not have steam genertors in the cab units.
As long as the truck spacing didn’t match the rail length, would the wheelbase have been important?
Peter
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