Yes, I saw it this morning. Tragic. Unfortunately it’ll be days before we know the cause.
Pretty sure it involves a track switch underneath the train.
Ed
Many freight trains were going over this tangent track just prior to the Amtrak. Lets not be so quick to establish ‘rail fan judgement’. There will be a thorough investigation, perhaps sabotage even give the currrent political climate.
There are three cars, detached from the rest of the train, on their sides before the switch.
Jeff
When cars derail, as some/all of the ones ahead of the three cars did, they both slow dramatically and become misaligned with the track. Following cars can affected by this.
The following cars “run into” the earlier cars.
I find it interesting that the event happened either at, or very near, a track switch. It IS certainly possible that it had nothing to do with the switch, and it’s a big coincidence that it happened there.
Ed
What is “rail fan judgement”?
Ed
What is the track layout there? From the sketchy video, I got the impression that there was one of more mainline switches there, maybe with crossovers. When you suggest a switch might have caused the derailment, what would be the possible scenarios for that? Would it be possible to go though a diverging route switch at too great of speed?
I used google earth to locate Joplin and the single track is tangent there. About one mile west from Joplin there is a curve to the right (westbound) and just beyond the curve there is a siding on the left (westbound). This may be the location; and for you who may have a BNSF timetable I believe the siding is named Buelow. The switch appears to be a #24 which would allow 40+ mph; and appears to be dispatcher controlled.
The event happened at or near a track switch at the end of a siding. In one photo from it, I saw a photo of a bungalow with what I take to be a station name of East Buelow. The siding is about a mile or three west of Joplin.
It’s single track at each end of the siding. Just a “plain ole passing siding”. It appears to be a CTC siding, based on the signals and what I take as switch motors.
I can’t tell what track the train was on. I would expect it would be on the main, hence not a diverging route. But it’s something to keep in mind.
(I see diningcar posted much the same just ahead of me.)
Possible scenario is that the switch was set against the train. Should be impossible, I think. What with ABS and CTC. On t’other hand, if the dispatcher wanted the Builder to stop at the siding and wait, maybe he had the switch set for the oncoming train. And then the Builder blew through the red and hit the switch. And went over.
Another probably more likely is that there was some sort of mechanical failure of the trackwork. Something “broke”.
Still another is something fell off a preceding train right there, and tripped up the Builder.
Another, of course, is sabotage. Hope not!
It’s been pointed out that trains had gone through there recently. I expect those crews will be interviewed on the chance that they saw or felt something funny.
And, of course, if there WAS an oncoming train,…
NTSB normally shows up, looks around, and has a news conference a kupla days later, where they release some of what they just found out. Then you don’t hear from them for a year or more while they try to nail it all down.
Ed
Here is some focus on the possible cause. It sounds like the train may have picked the switch after the engines and two cars passed over it. Maybe the switch had been damaged by another train prior to the passage of Amtrak.
https://apnews.com/article/amtrak-crash-montana-c8c3730849f568ca68b455eb23b49cef
“Railroad safety expert David Clarke, director of the Center for Transportation Research at the University of Tennessee, said accident scene photos show the derailment occurred at or near a switch, which is where the railway goes from a single track to a double track.
Clarke said the two locomotives and two cars at the front of the train reached the split and continued on the main track, but the remaining eight cars derailed. He said it was unclear if some of the last cars moved onto the second track.”
Not double track, just a long siding for long freights to clear the main track. Or perhaps the satellite photo I accessed is out of date.
Some passengers reported vibration and a rough ride prior to the derailment, which would seem to point to a failure in the running gear
amplification from later reports
"Some passengers reported that the train ride felt bumpy for many miles, which might signal a problem with the train’s suspension system. But even if a train’s crew takes note of a problem like that, its source could be difficult to identify while the train is running between cities, Mr. Zarembski said.
If the turbulence was more sudden, Saturday’s heat could also be to blame, said Russell Quimby, a retired accident investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board.
Mr. Quimby said he suspects the train may have hit a section of the track that had buckled from overheating."
The train was westbound.
There was/is a siding, with a switch at each end.
The problem happened at or near one of them.
It is not clear which switch it was.
I tend towards the western one, where the train could not have picked the points, as it would then be coming from the diverging end.
There are not very many pictures on-line–I wonder why. One seemed to show the tipped cars adjacent to more than two rails, which would fit with the wes
It is an extremely remote area of Montana. The nearest town, Joplin is about 200 people and all of Liberty County has 2339 people spread over 1447 square miles - about 1.6 persons per square mile. The county’s medical facility is a 25 bed “critical access hospital” in the county seat, Chester, about ten miles from the wreck. Joplin is 194 miles from the biggest urban center, Helena. So it is doubtful if it is on any media outlet’s normal beat - maybe one or two have a stringer in Chester. Reports are that six nearby counties are assisting Liberty County forces at the wreck with local families assisting survivors with food and drink and working at the ad hoc emergency center in Liberty High School. I don’t think they have time to take photographs.
"Sarah Robbin, the disaster emergency services coordinator for Liberty County, Mont., one of the most rural counties in the state, had spent much of her time over the past few years playing out a scenario like this in her head and planning how best to respond.
In each of the small towns that dot Route 2, which cuts through northern Montana along the railroad tracks, there are just a few hundred to a few thousand residents. The nearest major hospital is hours away by car. Emergency services are sparse.
“W
For those not familiar with the Builder, the front 6-8 cars (the cars ahead of the observation / lounge car) of the westbound train from Chicago go to Seattle, the rear 3-4 cars are cut off in eastern Washington state and go to Portland Oregon. According to one person on board (link below), it was the rear “Portland” portion that derailed; at least he notes from his vantage point the engines were upright and appeared to be on the track. That and the mention of the ‘rough ride’ in one car might indicate a car in the mid-rear had a damaged wheel that derailed when it hit the East Buelow switch, after the engines and front cars passed through.
But as noted, it’s all just speculation at this point…
Looked around a bit at the fire departments that could be involved. It’s been pointed out that seven counties had units respond.
The four closest departments along US2 - Chester, Joplin, Inverness, and Rudyard, together roster perhaps 85 members. From what I can see, they are primarily oriented toward wildland fires.
Given the general sparseness (as mentioned) in the area, some of the responding units had quite a ways to travel.
There was an aerial view of the wreck in the paper this morning. The event happened at the EAST end of the siding.
Ed
Which paper? The image may be on-line as well.
New York Times.
But I found an even more illustrative photo online, just now:
Ed