I read a report that stated CSX was trading 75 SD40-2s for a new locomotive order and placing more of the 40-2s in storage. Is this end of an era on the CSX?
(Fourth Statement down under June 23, 2007)
Wow! I’ve been seeing CSX SD40-2s running in my neck of the woods (Tampa Bay area) for years now. They’ve been a remarkable testimony to EMD durability. I’m glad that I’ve gotten to see these locomotive legends in action.
About 2 years ago, a trio of locomotives (two UP GEs and a CSX SD40-2 stopped right in front of me as I was standing outside of a furniture repair building. I spoke with the friendly conductor that was standing on the SD40-2s back porch. He told me that this particular unit was not running well and the crew was “nursing it” to get it to function in the lashup. I knew that was a sure sign that SD40-2s, in general, had racked an outstanding number of miles.
Yep and good riddance. Those new GEVOs are fine running machines.
I just saw a CSX phosphate train running in Tampa. The lead unit was an SD40-2, followed by an SD70M.
That SD40-2 was in the old “Bright Future” scheme. Paint’s completely faded. I’m assuming that some time soon this unit will be up for sale or headed for the scrapper.
Good riddance? Why?
The SD40-2 was the most popular 6 axle railroad workhorse in the U.S and Canada for 2 decades. IMHO, it has been a symbolic testimony to the quality put out by EMD. It will soon disappear from our mainlines and seen mostly on videos, photos books/magazines. I’m very glad that I got to see and appreciate these brutes in action. [C):-)][tup]
The SD40-2 is the quintessential American diesel-electric locomotive. The fact they’re still in mainline use, when the newest one is over 21, is a testament to their enduring quality. Unfortunately, it’s likely to be an economic decision to park many of these fine machines, due to fuel economy and whatnot. I’m quite sure they’ll be around in some form or another for perhaps the rest of my life (I’m 38 now).
One has to think though - those GEVO units with their new locomotive smell have to be smooth running machines now - but what about in 10 years? What’s the reliability record on them going to be 10 years from now? They’re getting 16 cylinder power out of 12 cylinders - is this at the sacrifice of usage down the road? Will these hold up as well as the equal-powered, but less-per-cylinder 16s?
My guess is that in 21 years, we will see more SD70ACe machines plying their duty than GEVOs, not necessarily because more were built (actually much less at current rates), but because EMD has a proven engine design. 3,800 SD40-2s can’t be wrong.
Apparently you have never spent time on one. In notch 8. How about in notch 8 pulling tonnage up a 20 mile grade? They are loud, noisy and cramped. They are cold in the winter and hot in the summer. The cab leaks more air than it keeps out. They are fuel hogs compared to the GEVOs. They pollute the environment with their filthy exhaust (and you thought I wasn’t a sensitive guy) Oh yea, did I mention they are loud in notch 8?
Compared to an C44AC or GEVO they are rather wimpy. When coupled to a C60AC they look about the size of a N guage toy.
You forgot to mention that they are all running around on total replacement parts (many of which were made by GE)
If you bother to check the specs on a GEVO you would see that they are larger displacement engines than the EMD 710, so they actually produce less engine stress per horsepower per volume displacement. Besides, the block, crank, pistons, etc on the GEVO are much more massive than the EMD 710. Its the 4300 HP 710 that I worry about falling apart in 10 years, not the GEVO.
Well that’s the problem, you are guessing at this stuff as a railfan, not working with it.
The bottom line is this: We are making plans to remove most of the “classic” EMDs that you railfans love (but most of the crews and accountants are really starting to hate) from active service as fast as possible. We’re even making plans to eventually replace the “new” (and totally crappy) 70MACs. Most of them will be replaced by new GEs. Of course, we wil
Yes, the GEVO had better have a larger displacement engine - it’s a 4 stroke - that means it’s making power with every OTHER revolution of the crank, not every revolution such as EMD’s two stroke.
4,300 HP 710s have been with us for over a decade.
Silicon that right there is the PROBLEM. EMD has not designed a NEW block successfully SINCE the 567 series in the 30’s that is right the 710 series can be traced back to the origanal 567 that was used in the FT from 1939. Yes the metals and engineering have improved but how much more pressure can you expect that blkock to handle. The last new block they tried the H-Series was a disaster and a total failure in service. GE on the other hand knew the FDL was at its limit at 4400 HP and came up with the HDL and that at 6000 HP was a good unit you do not see CSX or UP retiring those units do you. They also were able to remove the back 4 cylinders and get 4400HP out of that same engine. Let me see here 12 cylinders that are making 4400 HP at a LOWER RPM verus a block design that has not been changed since BEFORE WW2 and it takes more fuel and spins faster also costs more to run. Which one if I am an accountant and the rew like the other one better namely GE am I going to order since it will save me money.
If they are retiring just those SD40-2’s that is probably a drop in the bucket they have a lot more then just that.
I have spent some time in an ES44DC on a loaded rock train, and I cant tell you, the SD40-2 that was in the number 2 slot made the trip for us much easier. Ask the crews that run these rock trains in Texas whuich they’d rather have, ES44s, or SD40-2s or even SD45-2s. I know the answer, do you?
The SD40-2 is an incredible locomotive, and I have no doubts that they will outlast the ES44s, Trash9-44, C60ACs, and AC44s. Maybe not on mainline service, but then again, maybe on mainline service.
Ed,
You didn’t mention the 645, which perhaps you don’t consider as a “new design” since it was bascically a bored/restroked upgraded 567. But look at the success EMD had with the 12 and 16 cylinder 645 for a number of years. The SD40-2 and GP38-2 were solid performers that raised the bar.
EMD’s current plight is ironically sad, especially when looking back to the 1970s. Back then, comparing GE road locomotives to EMD road locomotives was virtually “no contest”.
GP40-2,
Just my view. Yes, the SD40-2 is smaller than today’s 6 axle road locomotives, but by no means is it tiny.
I understand your perspective as a professional. For their time they were incredible machines, but for today’s standards they are far less comfortable and efficient than modern units.&nbs
Having worked with both the old and new locos , the new GE’s are good road engines , but they are lousy on locals and yard jobs . Old EMD’s make better engines in this kind of service , so they will have a place for awhile , but this brings up another point , no one makes a new yard locomotive and this will come back to haunt the railroads once the old EMD’s are gone .
Also consider this any locomotives REMANUFACTURED after 2008 will have to be brought up to Tier 2 emissons standards. So that means that the older power is going to be either flying out the door to the scrappers or the RR are going to be investing huge amounts in unproven aftertreatment technology.
I wonder if that will make the next year and a half a boom for all the rebuilders (followed by an inevitable bust)…
I’ve run SD70s, ES44s, and the like…I’ll take a SD40-2 anyday, provided the doors and windows close and the toliet doesn’t stink.
Many of my crews feel the same way.
Nick
Actually, new yard switchers are being built. NRE, MPI and Railpower are all going after this market. NRE and Railpower have been building a fair number of gen-set locomotives and MPI has more conventional designs with Cat, EMD or Detroit Diesel/MTU engines.
Actually, new yard switchers are being built. NRE, MPI and Railpower are all going after this market. NRE and Railpower have been building a fair number of gen-set locomotives and MPI has more conventional designs with Cat, EMD or Detroit Diesel/MTU engines.
This is true but to date I have seen so little of these locomotives at work ,
time will tell.
GEVO 12-cylinder - 1050RPM Notch 8.
EMD 16-710G3C-T2 950RPM Notch 8.
I’m sorry, I just don’t see it. Some people say that 2-stroke engines are not as efficient as 4-stroke engines. That is very true when you look at your gasoline-powered chainsaw or weed whacker, but it does not apply to diesel engines. In fact, the WORLD’s most EFFICIENT internal combustion engine is, you guessed it, a 2-stroke diesel that powers a container ship.
Don’t get me wrong here, I enjoy seeing consists of ES44AC locomotives, and I see a lot of them here in Phoenix, but some of the stuff going around about GE vs EMD is bunk, and it cuts both ways.
In the end, GE is here to stay and I am happy for it. On the other hand, EMD is not the ‘junk’ that people make them out to be here. While it may be true that the SD40-2 units are getting retired and replaced with GE, my whole point here is reliability. We don’t know where the GEVO will be in 10 years, it’s a relatively new design. I’m not saying that because I am a GE hater - I’m not. My opinion also held true for the LSx engine design that Chevrolet replaced their old SB with - but now that’s been around 10 years and it has proven itself. On the EMD front, we do know where they will be with the 16-710G3C engine in 10 years, because the 4,300 HP 710G3C has already been with us 12 years.
Then again, the newest of those SD40-2 units are now approaching 22 years of age, the oldest - 35 years, they HAVE been overhauled several times, and they HAVE lasted this long. There’s always a market here for used EMD.
today at 2pm rochelle a up stacker 125 cont with 2 sd40s pulled out of global 3 yard . in galesburg sf main 2 sd40s hustling a stacker last week. these wont quit.
can see crews perspective of what engine is comfort.
talked to enginers on both up bnsf and they like the gm aces better than the gvos.
emd is makin money n profits,they will be around a spell[:-^]