Another question - Im sure you all can tell Im new to all this…
I bought a Lionel graduated tressel set and set it all up. It rises something like 5" and then back to grade over a total of about 20’. I tried running my polar express set on it and the engine stalls when I get to the bottom of the hill unless I turn the speed up from 20 or 30 up to like 60 or 70. Im OK with doing that but when the train gets to the top of the hill then begins to go back down the speed of the train is so great that if I dont turn it down it will fly off the track at the curve. Does anyone have any advice as to how I can better control the incline and decline speed so that the train continues as about the same speed in both? Idealy I’d like to set the train speed at like 25 and let it run at that speed all the way around the loop. Can I somehow change the gear ratios or something??? in an attempt to give the train more low end and less top speed?
You can isolate the center rail on the grades. Power the uphill track directly from the transformer. Power the level track and the downhill track through separate voltage-dropping elements. For these, you can use train rheostats like the Lionel 81 or 95. Or you can use diode networks. These are series strings of pairs of rectifier diodes, with the diodes of each pair wired cathode to anode. You can also get the equivalent of 4 diodes in one package by using bridge-rectifier modules. Connect the + and - leads of each individual module together. Then wire the modules in series using the ~ terminals. You don’t have to have a separate string for each of the level and downhill sections. Just tap into one string closer to the transformer for level and at the end for downhill.
You will be advised to power the sections from different outputs of a multiple-output transformer. Do not do this, especially with a traditional transformer like a postwar ZW. This can cause fault currents that can burn up your wiring or transformer if there is any significant difference in the output voltages, which of course would be the case to accomplish what you want to do.
If you want to be able to run over the hill in either direction, something significantly more complicated is required.
If you truly are at 5", then you are just ove 2% incline, which isn’t much. Lionelsoni’s advice works. I build a strip out of parts from Radio Shack. My Lionel and Kline engines are so much faster than my MTH ones (at much lower voltages too), so I use the rectifier strips to slow them down. I have about $35 in the strip of 11 bridge rectifer modules, and I had to go from store to store to buy the 2 or 3 that they had. Wiring them up just like Bob told you. There are cheaper places to get them, but I wanted it fast so I paid the $3 for each module. I made one long strip of them, and put the + coming out of the transformer on the first tap, and wire another connection from a lower voltage tap to the track power section. Voltage drops as you get further down the strip. Works great. You could break that 20’ section into (4) 5’ “blocks” with the isolated center rail, and drop the voltage a volt of so per block to shave off speed. I would get 4 of the rotory switches that RS sells and put 6 connections of reduced voltage on each of the 6 taps of the switch so you can fine tune your speed of the decline to the engine you are running. Make the 6th position on the switch full voltage so when you get a train with a speed control, you can turn all 4 switches to wide open voltage and run the layout like you never blocked it at all.
Thanks for putting up that picture, Wes. I was afraid my description was a little hard to follow.
Wes used Radio Shack’s 25-ampere bridge. They have a 6-ampere bridge that is a little cheaper and probably heavy enough, especially if you don’t plan to use a heat sink:
I agree. I missed that key info in his post. That’s a tough grade to climb with more than just a few cars. Speed control is almost a necessity on the decline with such a steep grade.
If you are going to be dealing with grades (inclines), You need engines with Odyssey. Thats a Lionel System which works like a cruise control in a car. You speed the train up to a speed you want, and it will keep that speed ALL the time going up or down or at level. I my self don’t own a engine without Odyssey. You set it and forget it. When you buy an engine, make sure it has Odyssey. But they cost about $300 bucks more than a reg. engine.
You might also want to consider a “cruise commander” from ElectricRR. Costs about $150.00 and should fit inside the Polar Express engine. At the moment this kit can only be added to can motored engines, which is just about any recent production engine.
When we built the Coal Terminal & trestle layout a few years back, we faced the same problem and opted to use two MTH LocoSound locomotives which had the MTH speed control system at a solid cost savings over a fully-equipped PS2 locomotive. They were pretty reliable at maintaining speed up and down hill.
So regardless of brand, the better answer may be engines with speed control.
To add, I don’t know how well the add-on speed controls work for locos without flywheel equipped can motors. My K-line has the horizontal motors mounted on the trucks and they probably spin wheels much faster per RPM. I’m sure the flywheel helps smooth out the speed changes. There is a fine line between creeping down the track and not really having enough power to move since it shows the motors down so much. So slow they just hum. Anyone put a speed control in a train like the kline?
I have a K-line switcher with two truck-mounted cans that is very fast. It runs at voltages below that which is required to cycle e-unit or even move a Open frame motored Loco (PW) I though maybe I could wire the motors in series if they are now wired in parallel to help reduce the speed. I think I’ve heard of this being done before.
On the Odyssey, does Lionel sell any non-TMCC locos with this feature? I didn’t know you could get a Non PS2 MTH Loco with cruise (nice to know)
I don’t think you can get any new MTH loco without some level of PS. They are up to 4.0 now. Still, you can turn the cruise control off if you want. It’s still not as jerky as a trunk mounted can motor loco because of the flywheel. It just doesn’t maintain it’s speed up and down the hills.
I remember reading about the series mounted motors. I never tried it. It just seemed like the motors were turning pretty slowly anyhow. The gearing just seems too low, making it a rocket.
The motors on the K-Line switch engines are factory wired in parallel but wiring them in series is the way to go. This can be done by trial and error. Wire the motors in series: one front motor wire to one rear motor wire and the other front motor wire to one of the power wires and the other rear motor lead to the remaining power wire. Test run the engine off the track. If the wheels on the two trucks turn in different directions simply reverse the leads on one of the motors. It doesn’t matter which one, just so you reverse only one set of wires.
Rob, thanks for an idea!!! I used to enjoy running long trains with a helper engine pushing on the rear of the caboose. Being that I am 100% steam, this was done with the helper in reverse…Using an old postwar was easy, I just had to lock the E unit of the helper in reverse…The newer locomotives did not cooperate like that after sitting a few minutes, and I would have a tug of war with the lead locomotive…If the steam locos used as helpers were to have their motor leads reversed, this problem would not exist…Thanks
You can control the startup direction by reversing the power wires to the motors after you get the motors working together correctly. I have seen published instructions somewhere years ago but I never had a copy. I (carefully) used trial and error to get the wiring setup I wanted. Never saw one with a switch though. That would have been nice to have. Might have saved my wife’s first Hershey train loco. It took a dive off a shelf layout 6 feet above a carpeted concrete floor when my young grandson got ahold of the ZW throttle. That plastic front truck sure did shatter. Then it was off to Ebayland for another engine.