I have a Olympia Brass 4-8-2 Boston & Maine R-1d that I just had the open frame motor removed and replaced in. The gentleman who did the work used a NWSL can motor and also replaced the gears with NWSL gears. It was then painted, had a Tsunami decoder installed and LED’s. I got the engine back Friday evening and just took it to the club to program it up using the computer and Decoder Pro at the club.
Overall I’m very happy with the detail of the paint job. It looks fantastic. My only complaint is that the engine runs so slowly that it won’t get out of it’s own way. I have had it upside down in a foam craddle now for 3 hours breaking in the new motor. The slow speed is great, but it won’t move any faster than maybe 30 scale mph at the top end. I have tried using the Decoder pro to tweek the top end speed, but it had no effect.
Is there a way of “tweeking” a Can motor? Why won’t this thing go any faster? There does not appear to be any binding in the gears at all. Everything moves freely. I’ve lightly oiled all the side rods and drivers. She runs pretty quietly, she just can’t get out of her own way…
Hi. I am uncertain what the problem might be other than the most obvious to me…gearing is wrong for that locomotive. It may just need another gear tower that is more suitable for the driver diameter.
a regear like this on a N&W Y6b would be great as they crawled upgrade with long coal drags, it would be a fabulous sight. But for your engine it may be too much. You prolly want a doubled speed deal. Ask the fellow who regeared it for ya to inspect it and maybe rework it.
If I recall (w/o checking the NWSL catalog) some of the can motors are offered in 12K and 15K speed ranges and the gear sets are offered in diferent ranges. For decades we griped about unrealistic speeds (Athearn Hustler was probably the worst offender) now we can run into the opposite problem (Intermountain Cab Forward or Atlas FP-7)
Could you find out what NWSL part numbers your repair guy used to re-power this engine with? If he used the wrong gear ratio in conjunction with one of the slower turning motors this would explain your problem.
He should have tested his work prior to returning it to you. [sigh]
They are offered in that range, as well as lower speed ranges. After trying for 6 months to get a 15 - 16k motor from them, (Out of Stock per NWSL), highest I could get was a 12. I would be willing to bet that he used a slower speed motor, rather than too high of a gear ratio in the gear box.
Michael;
I would definitely contact the person who did the work and find out what he did use and get him to correct it. Since he’s a custom painter/builder he should do so without question. If a customer of mine was displeased with any painting/mech work/redetailing that I had done, I always did my best to please him.
CAN MOTORS run slower than the original OPEN FRAMES.
‘REALISTIC’ speed depends on the TYPE of engine, the existing TRACK restrictions, and CONDITIONS of both, but is generally HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE among Modelers.
SOME think slowing engines down is desirable. OTHERS think faster is better (or at least more fun) - so personal taste comes into play.
IN HO, moving12" in a second comes very close to representing a scale 60 MPH. Passenger trains typically run 55MPH - 65 MPH, and freights 25 - 55 MPH. Many ‘toy’ models run 120MPH @12 volts. Do trains run faster? Sure - (in spots).
LAY DOWN a ruler and with a watch with a ‘second hand’ make your own decision. To change overall speed requires matching of motors and gears - and with labor can run $100 - $150. Judicious use the Voltage knob is FREE.
On some can motors, the old Canons for one, you can change the “top” speed by changing the position of the brushes relative to the magnets. Of course you get a trade off in available torque versus amps/volts, but you should still be okay.
I spoke with the company (gentleman) who did the rework for me yesterday on the phone. He was less than helpful. He “does not recall” which gear set he used in my locomotive. In his words, he used a gear set that he had “laying around the shop.” Then he told me that he really couldn’t help me.
This REALLY pisses me off because this company is a pretty well known company in the North East. Now I’m stuck with a super nice locomotive (he did a fantastic paint job) that can’t get out of it’s own way.
Tel him to either fix it or have his name smeared all over the internet. I have the same engine, I live in the northeast and I wanna know who NOT to take it to.
Do you happen to know what the motor’s top RPM is? One fellow who bought an Intermountain AC-12 Cab Forward found that thos motors spin at 8,000 RPM and quickly swapped it with a 16K RPM. Or if it is a high RPM already (10k +) I know where one can get some slot car can motors that range 20k to about 30k RPM. www.scalextric.com is the place.
You can figure out the gear ratio pretty easily. Just turn the motor shaft by hand and count the revolutions until a wheel make one revolution, and compare with what is made. I know I would be ticked off too, but NWSL may be able to bail you out. They are VERY good at what they do. I used to think they had a lackadaisical attitude, but I have since come to believe it’s just that not much excites them. [:D] You may have to press a gear off a shaft, but if (IF) there is an idler gear in the stack, you may be able to swap two gears and get exactly what you want.
I would resist the temptation to get in a pissing contest. You may need “just a real good paintjob” sometime, and what you really want is your loco to run right, not to wage and win a war. If he doesn’t know/remember what he did, he truly ain’t gonna be much help.
Oh man, thats too bad. I know that if I ever treated any of my customers that way on their equipment I had painted/detailed/ etc… I would have lost him forever! I painted for 30yrs, and only had one dissatisfied customer ever. I had only WOM advertising and it served me well. As to replacing the gears, “with one he had laying around”, I would never have allowed that, without knowing exactly what the gear set was, and even then, only with the approval of the customer.
I have to partially agree with Virginian here. Don’t get into a “pissing contest” with this man. After that I disagree. Its like having a problem with any business. But, I wouldn’t do anymore business with him, period. I would just recommend to anyone who is looking for a custom painter, that you’re very dissatisfied with the work done by so & so, and why, ie, he declined to correct a problem he created. At that point say no more about the subject. There are too many other excellent custom painters out there.
Thanks for the GREAT advice. I went ahead and called NWSL and ordered the correct gear box. The were very helpful and even explained to me what most likely happened in my situation. Not all gear boxes are meant for all steam engines.
Good Advice about not getting into a pissing match with the guy about the gear box. He did quite a bit of work, 95% of was first rate work. I will most likely use him again for his painting services, but will go elsewhere for rework and repair work.
I think you’ll find there are good painters that are not particularly adept at mechanical things, and Electrical geniuses that are less so where mechanics and painting are concerned.
Seldom do you find all three that are both good and affordable. Unfortunately it’s 'trial & error.
Suck up your disappointments and find a mechanical sharpie. If you received a fairly good paint job, good! You could have received a good running loco with an ‘iffy’ paint job.
I’ve found 3 painters that didn’t do my work, moved, AND didn’t return the engines. Independent ‘Contractors’ can be all over the lot. The GOOD ones aren’t cheap. (They have more work than they can handle).