[:)]
Hello everone
I have noticed that many English steam locos have very tall drivers. Does anyone know why or the thinking on this? They seem to be taller than even the fast U.S. steam engines.
Happy R R ing
Lee
Keep in mind that due to their “loading gauge” (the low height of their tunnels etc.) British equipment is about 1/8th smaller than comparable US equipment. So if say a US and UK Pacific each have 79" drivers, the drivers on the UK engine are going to look bigger because the overall engine outline is quite a bit lower than the US engine.
On the whole I think that in the UK the trains were (and are) lighter (less trailing tons) and the grades on the main lines are probably somewhat less steep, both of which allow the use of taller drivers, all else being equal.
Well of course, way back (100 years ago or more) very large drivers were common in the US or the UK. I think some of the British “singles” (4-2-2’s, like Thomas the Tank Engines girlfriend) had like 96" drivers. But as for later engines, let’s take a look…
Pennsylvania’s K-4 Pacifics of 1914 had 80" drivers.
London & NorthEastern A.1 and A.3 Pacifics from 1922 had 80" drivers.
New York Central’s J-3 Hudsons of 1937 had 79" drivers.
London Midland & Scottish Duchess class Pacifics of 1937 had 81" drivers.
This was from “The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Railway Locomotives” by Robert Tufnell (Nigel’s cousin I presume??). From a quick look at similar engines built for similar purposes, it appears they had generally the same wheel driver sizes (within an inch or two anyway). It’s just UK equipment is much lower/smaller, so say a UK 4-6-0 with 69" drivers will appear to have bigger drivers than a US 4-6-0 with 69" drivers, because the UK engines body is smaller even though the driver diameters are the same.
BTW that’s why they model in OO instead of HO, only using HO track - when they tried to make UK HO models in the thirties, they found that motors that would fit in US or German engines were too big for the British versions, so they made them bigger by using a scale of 4mm=1 ft (OO scale) instead of HO’s 3.5mm=1 ft…or 1:72 instead of 1:87.
Thanks all.
I was looking at pictures on (www.railpictures.net) and from time to time they show what seems to be a green semi streamlined loco that has drivers that reach half way up the boiler.I found it interesting. [tup]
Lee
Lee,Hi !-interesting topic,-I rather think the previous respondants have the right of it R.E loading gauge and general proportions-the former Midland,Great Western & Great Northern lines all had “8ft singles” back in the day-and wonderful elegant machines they were too…[^]-I have a ghost of a memory that the 7ft gauge Bristol & Exeter Rly had a class of 4-2-4 tanks with 9ft drivers… No time to check out the link you provided but suspect they may be the Gresley A4 pacifics-a class which includes #4468 Mallard-holder of the world speed record for steam-all perfectly proportioned curved lines-and run as well as they look…A.T.B Nick P.S-If Brit steam is to your taste,check out the Our Place thread-a liberal dose of it happening there [tup] |
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Nick
I went to rail pictures and searched for United Kingdom railroads and came up with a few examples. The A4 Brittern at Newcastle, The flying scotsman 4-6-2, #6000 King George V 4-6-0, and Caledonian Railways 0-4-4 all have that long legged look. The trains allso look more narrow than US trains. It could just be their proportions. Anyway have fun.
Oh yes, I did search for #4468 4-6-2 Mallard. Exceptional machine!
Lee [:D]
Lee-as you suggest mate-it`s all down to proportions-once upon a time style and substance were accorded similar value… [C=:-)] |
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What you probably saw was LNER 4472, “The Flying Scotsman” which is still in use today on fantrips and such. It’s an LNER A class as I refered to in my earlier post, with 80" drivers.
The first segment as it stops by the platform give you an idea of it’s size relative to the people next to it.
Hi Lee,
I gather you are In St. Louis. You may well know that one of the Class A4 ex LNER/BR locos is on static exhibit at your national Railroad Museum in Green Bay WI.
The loco concerned is former LNER 4496 Golden Shuttle, re-numbered as 60008 by British Railways and also re-named Dwight D. Eisenhower.
This link may be of interest:
Click the first item on the menu A 4-6-2 Pacific
Lee,
I highlighted the link in my initial post and dragged it into the address bar at the top - it worked. I also did the same on the link in your reply post - that also worked.
The only thing I can suggest, if you have not done so, is to type it into your address bar yourself.
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Alan,Hi-had trips out on both the Paignton & Buckfastleigh lines last june (see below ) and found both to be a credit to all concerned-if you are in any way connected,please pass on my thanks and congrats. on a job well done [^][tup]
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Take care now,
Nick
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Hi Nick,
I am a volunteer on the P&DSR (also was on the DVR at Buckfastleigh some while ago).
For our friends not in the UK, the tender loco in Nicks top pic is a 4-6-0 loco No.7827 Lydham Manor which is the same one as in my avatar. Although she is in Great Western livery she was in fact built by British Railways in 1950 at the former Great Western shops in Swindon. As many GW fans know very little changed at Swindon and on the ex GWR for many years after nationalization - just the letter headings. The carried on as though it was still the old company.
A very large percentage of UK Heritage Railways do have, in some cases only have, ex Great Western (Western Region BR) locos as their motive power.
I tried everything. Is there something that goes on the end(.net or .com) or what ever?
Lee
Hi Lee,
I have looked at the various options on the site but basically they have a similar address.
However, try Google:
Type this in the search bar:
The London & North Eastern Railway (LNER) Encyclopaedia
It should show as the first item on the list of urls.
Good luck this time.
I don’t think it is a UK site,it seems to have a conection with the Lone Star State. [swg]
Alan
I got the site by using your method, and the address is (www.iner.info) but I don’t know what was differant. The Flying Scotsman #4472 was the loco that I was thinking of. I feel like a [D)]
I model in “HO” are any of UK locos available in that Gauge?
That is so [banghead] I just tried clicking on the above and got the wrong site, eventhough that was in the address bar. [%-)]
Thanks
Lee
http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a.shtml
http://www.enuii.org/vulcan_foundry/RS&H/rocket_replica__lner_locomotive_bayardo.jpg
Well now we’ve opened another kettle of worms. I guess the answer is “sort of”; you can buy models of UK engines that run on HO track, but they aren’t HO scale. [%-)]
HO scale is 1:87 scale, 3.5mm = 1 ft. (Literally “Half O” scale, with O being 7mm=1ft…in some places anyway.) Way back (maybe the 1920’s?) when HO started, the smallest available motors would fit in most US or European engines, but not in British models because as noted they are about 1/8th smaller than their US counterparts. So the British made the models 1/8th bigger, 4 mm = 1 ft for linear scale, but running on HO gauge track. This “OO Scale” is still the most common in Britain. Although now it would be possible to model in 3.5mm scale, the tend has been to go the other way - stay in 4mm but widen the track gauge to the right gauge.
So…yes you can get models to run on HO track, from finely detailed models to Thomas and Friends…but they’re really OO scale not HO scale. [:)]
Hi Lee,
Glad you managed, eventually, to get into the web site. [(-D]
Actually at Stix says most British models are 00 running on HO gauge track but some models of British outline stock imported into the UK by European manufactuers were to HO scale. This was not a long term thing and they soon adopted the unique Uk gauge.
I did model both European HO (SNCF) and OO (Great Western Railway) at one time: I am now into Garden “G” scale railroads, based on the D&RGW (1:22.5) and Milwaukee Road (1:29).