In the past I’ve gotten some great information here; however, I’ve not yet taken the PLUNGE into DCC. I put together a couple of test layouts just to run some trains, but now I’ve started the frame work for a 6’X10’ walk around with a dual gauge main-line that loops over itself once. Effectively my main line will be roughly 2-3 as long as most 4’X8’ starter layouts. Also my rough math tells me that I will need a 3-5 amp booster to run 2 or 3 trains on the main line at once. My plan was to get the starter set first, test all my wiring, slowly put dcc decoders in my DC locomotives, then buy a booster a few months later for full operation. The three entry systems I have looked at the most are:
NCE Power Cab - 95% sure this is the way I’m going.
MRC Prodigy Express or MRC Prodigy A2 Squared - not a lot of information about adding boosters and PC components later
Digitrax Zephyr - very temped with the ability to still run DC for a short time, but I’m unsure about future upgrades
Is there anyone else who has done what I am about to do with any of these systems?
I’ve seen that, and I don’t know at this time. At first my dcc layout will be extremely plain and most likely a waste of technology. However, I will more than likely add decoders to passenger cars, run mulitple short trains with double headers once get used to it, and have four wired ports to move cabs around for future yards and industry switching. So a little over-kill at the beginning might pay off, or so I have been told.
Thanks, I guess I might be looking at a fourth system.
Both NCE and Digitrax are good choices. Both have been in the DCC business from almost day one.
Both can be connected to a computer for additional features, like programming and the like, using the free JMRI suite of software tools.
Digitrax also offers a very broad line of accessories for their LocoNet bus. While NCE doesn’t the the breadth and depth of product, they do put more effort into making their systems easy to use (compared to Digitrax). For a small layout the NCE system is fine, for larger, more complex layouts, Digtrax gets an advantage with LocoNet.
Thanks, this was some of the information I was hoping for. When I looked at the Digitrax Zephyr before I thought I would have to add smooth power packs to add throttles. And having the DC option (only in the beginning) would be nice. Even though my future layout will be mid-sized, I would like some features of large layouts.
Side note, are NCE and Digitrax produced in the USA?
Yes, both Digitrax and NCE are made in the USA, and their customer service and support is in the USA. MRC to me would be a NO-GO because it is made in China and, from some reports here, repair service is lacking.
The same goes for decoders – NCE, Digitrax, SoundTraxx, and TCS are made in the USA. MRC decoders are Chinese products.
As Betamax pointed out, NCE and Digitrax systems have a computer interface capability if you ever reach the point that you would like to use JMRI software to simplify decoder programming.
The NCE PowerCab and PowerPro systems are also supported by a free computer software suite from Terry Chamberlain in England called A-Track.
I chose the NCE Power Cab over the Digitrax products for one very simple reason - I am all thumbs! When I look at the Digitrax cabs with so many similar buttons my eyes glaze over. The NCE system has enough differentiation between buttons that I can use it quite easily, although I still have to read the function button labels to hit the right one if I want to actuate something other than the basic bell, horn, headlights etc.
If you have good hand-eye coordination then according to almost all reports on the forums, either would be a good choice.
Too limited. “Expansion” actually consists of replacing bits and pieces until you get what you want/need. For example, need more amps or more than a couple throttles? Then replace the PowerCab’s built-in booster with an SB-whatever-number-they’re-on-now. Also, the computer interface has lots of restrictions.
I wouldn’t buy one if you paid for it. Lack of expandability, poor proprietary computer software, poor support, and arrogant adverts (not that that really matters…)
Best choice. LocoNet’s diistributed architecture makes expansion easy. Need another throttle? Plug it in. Need another booster? Plug it in. Need a full-featured computer interface? Plug it in. Want to use a 3rd party LocoNet device? Pick the one you want from any of several manufacturers, and yes, plug it in!
Oh, and those jump throttles for the Zephyr? Yes, a smooth, variable DC source is required. Like a 9v battery and a Radio-shack pot. You don’t need to use a powerpack if you can wire a battery clip and a pot together.
At 2.5 amps my Zephyr will run 6 sound locos without any problem. Don’t think you will need a booster for the 2-3 you will be running. The NCE at lesser amps will still run your 2-3 locos. The length of your main lines have nothing to do with the capacity of the power source needed, the number of locos in any given power district is the important factor. upgrades for the Zephyr, no problem. Believe you will be happy which ever unit you choose. Both are quality products.
You mentioned “dual gauge” main line? Would this be O/On30 or HO/HOn3 - or am I misunderstanding what you said? If it is truly dual gauge with a shared common rail, single mode - single DCC command station and booster for both gauges, or in DC same block for both gauges - prevents a lot of problems.
I just made the plunge myself - I got tired of borrowing other people’s throttles and locomotives at our modular club setups. Since the club uses NCE - as wired, the modules will do Digitraxx and other systems as well as NCE by substituting equipment - choice of the NCE Power Cab was a no-brainer. The Power Cab plugs right into any module’s jacks and powers up automatically as another throttle on the club’s Power Pro system.
At home, with all of my locos without decoders - I’m working on my first conversion - I’m installing a toggle to select the Power Cab OR my DC throttle. The only caution is that all decoderless locos have to be removed from the layout before selecting Power Cab - not a big chore in my case. With the Zephyr, you would be able to control one moving DC lo
I don’t understand your concern about future upgrades with the Zephyr. Digitrax is probably the most upgradable of the bunch. With the “Z” you can use your DC system as a jump throttle, but the better idea would be to just add Digitrax throttles. You can add several. It will easily run the number of trains you mentioned, even with multiple engines in the consists. No booster required. If, in the future, you expand a booster is easily added.
Sorry for the confusion. My layout will be HO scale with HO/HOn3 dual gauge Code 70 track on the main line. My reason being I only have enough room for one layout, but I like both 3’ narrow gauge and standard gauge. My basic design will be variant of a wider longer version (6’X10’) of this classic design, http://whiteriverandnorthern.net/plan-1.htm
I purchased a copy of Basic DCC Wiring for Your Model Railroad: A beginner’s guide to decoders, DCC Sytems and layout wiring, by Mike Polsgrove. I have no idea how much power or how many throttles I will need in time, so I need a system I can expand on if or when I need to.
When I looked at the Digitrax Zephyr before I didn’t read or understand all the detail of future functions, so I was under the impression that all the controls would be stationary like a traditional DC layout. I was glad find out about loconet expansion and a full list throttles to choose from.
So I am very glad Digitrax is much more expandable than I thought.
And complicates my decision much more.
I read mixed reviews on using the DC or 0000 function on DCC cabs like Zephyr. Some have said as long as the DC locomotive stays on the track only when in use that everything is fine; however, more people have said it is not worth the risk.
I know I could make a toggle system, switching from DCC to DC, like you spoke of, but I’d rather convert convert most of my Athreans to DCC. Other than that I have three Mantua standard gauge steamer and an older MDC 2-8-0 I feel I can convert as well. I will start with the Athreans and learn what I can, then dive into the steamers. I will buy at least one new DCC factory locomotive to set up any of the DCC units.
WHAT? You don’t replace the power cab. You add onto it with the SB5. While your Zephyr sits on the bench I can walk around with my throttle without adding another throttle. What restrictions are you talking about? With the standard PH pro system the computer can plug right into the command station.
When you add the SB5, which command station and booster are powering the layout? The ones built into the PowerCab, or the ones that make up the SB5? What about the power supply that comes with the PowerCab? Doesn’t the SB5’s power supply supplant it?
All you have left of the PowerCab is the equivalent of a ProCab throttle. You lose the ammmeter and all the other PowerCab-specific functionality. So you didn’t expand the Powercab with the SB5, you replaced it’s command station, booster and power supply with the SB5.
OTOH, when you add a booster to the Zephyr, you can STILL use the Zephyr as a command station without losing any functionality, and you can STILL use the Zephyr’s booster output (in addition to the output of the booster you just added) to power the layout.
As far as the NCE-USB interface’s limitations, if you follow the link I posted, instead of trying to divert attention to the Power Pro’s serial interface, you can read what the JMR
Looks a layout for a lot of fun - especially for rail fan operations.
Just so you don’t get caught by surprise - if you are running 2 trains in opposite directions on the main, you need two passing tracks instead of the one shown on the plan to keep the trains moving. And the passing tracks need to be nearly double your train length if the train is not to stop and wait while on the passing track. The track plan will be a lot easier to operate if all trains are going the same direction on the main.
2nd gotcha in the plan - There is no way not to foul the main while switching the spurs. In the lower right corner, if both spurs come off the passing track, the other track can be used as a through track.
To make matters worse, the 2 spurs not in the lower right are opposite directions. Which means one will be a facing point with no nearby runaround to help you.
3rd gotcha in the plan - The 2 spurs not in the right appear to be on or near main track grades. You may have runaway portions of train while switching those spurs.
A lot of small track plans have these “flaws”. How much they affect you depends on what kind of operation you envision, how much switching you want to do, and what kind of modifications to the plan you anticipate making.
Unless you are planning on a future expansion, your input at 3 trains maximum running at any give
Anyway the SB3 or the SB5 does not have a command station. What it does have is a repeater to keep repeating the packets sent by the command station that is still in the Power Cab. Once the owner upgrades to the SB5 the only thing you don’t really need is the panel and wall wart. Many owners will relocate them to a dedicated programming track or the work bench. Many find that a plus but maybe you don’t? No wasted products in my eyes.
As far as I know this problem was rectified with an upgrade. So if the OP buys a new item then it is a moot point. The information in the link even states USB version 7.* and above, system with version 1.65 and above firmware, AIU supported.
So you can jump down off the mighty Digitrax or nothing horse and come to some realization that there are more options besides one for someone to spend their money on.
As I understand it they are all good choices. Depending on the way you want to operate, there might be slight differences on which one may be best for your situation.
I recently took the plunge and the first question I was asked by the dealer was “are there other operating layouts in your area?” The suggestion was, if there were, get a system compatible to it so that you can take your controller to operate on another layout or they can bring one to yours.
The NCE was my strong leaning also and knowing that there was a large operating layout in the area using NCE helped settle the issue.
The single controller can be taken to another layout using the 4 wire cable and used as your hand held there, even if you have a Power Cab and they have a Pro Cab.
I have operated three locomotives at once with it (that’s all I’ve got) and it worked fine. I just had to be careful due to the small size of my layout.
There is one thing I didn’t care for. You cannot use a longer 6 wire cable attached to the controller when it is used as the main source of power. Had I realized the problem, I would have put my fascia mount in a different location so I could stand at more locations around the layout.
As for needing more power. I asked the same question and was told that an 8’x14’ layout I am thinking of would not need additional power, unless I was operating many locomotives. Since I am primarily a lone operator, it shouldn’t be a problem. Even if another operator joined me, we should each be able to operate two locomotives without a problem. I think moderate size layouts with grades requiring (or just running) multiple locos together are the only ones that would need additional power. Of course if you are running turnouts and other things off the power, you may need added power.
If this were correct, you would still be replacing the booster in the Power Cab; however, the SB3/5 does have a command station, so you are replacing both the booster and the command station in the Power Cab when you are operating with the SB3/5. This last part is important - they kept the price of the SB3/5 lower by not including a separate program track output. The command station/booster of the Power Cab takes the place of the separate program track output, so it is not completely replaced by the SB3/5. The retail cost of a Power Cab over a regular Pro Cab is only about $30, so that is all the command station/booster of the Power Cab is costing you.
