I’m not sure where you work…but on the several hundred miles of territory I’m qualified on, there are exactly four non-controlled sidings. And you can’t pass at two of them. The other two are in DCS territory. So, at least out here, the difference is mostly moot.
Yes, the air driven EOTs have battery backups, but dispite what is claimed, they don’t last more that 30 minutes or so (if that). That EOT may be fine while it’s sitting there (no indication if is in the yard, on the main, or on the siding), but as soon as he ventrues toward the main, he needs either an illuminated headlight or marker.
you dont know how many miles you are qualified on , the several hundread miles, myself i am qualified on 358 miles of the ns railroad. as a engineer, but the discussion was eot and the eot only has to be working when leaving initial terminal, if it fails in route you can proceed not working and not be fined for it. or fired, if this little discussion was to continue i would have you clairify working and not. you can have a reading and be able to shoot the brakes with it but have no light, this would not make you have restrictions. but if the thing gives you no reading no light its a marker and you must slow to 30 mph. I wont go deeper into this as i would need mookie to help out with the technical jargon ( which she is great at) and most of those that remeber havent chimed in as you left them confused ( totally ) the last time…
Actually what he wrote was plain as day. I understood exactly what he said. You have to realize that NORAC and GCOR have there differences. GCOR states at night you must have a red light. If the light goes out in route you have to slow your train. A red flag is not a marker at night. You may want it to be but, you cant see a red flag at night, on the rear of a train. BTW: How would you know how many mile of track he is qualifed on. If memory serves, if the EOT fails in route you may continue but slow to 30. Even if you have a reading. But, as soon as I get back to the house I will pull my rule book out and double check.
I obviously don’t know the rules, but there is something odd here. The EOT or FRED has a flashing red light that (by my reasoning) is to help protect you from being hit from the rear, i.e.: a train approaching from the rear can see the flashing light and is thus warned that you are there and can stop short of a collision (hope hope).
Now, if that device fails and is no longer flashing and thus no longer warning any following train that you are there, why in the world would you want to go SLOWER? Personally, I’d want to go a bit faster to make sure I keep ahead of anyone following me!
But, maybe that is like the mentality of the person that hates driving in heavy traffic so they drive faster to get out of it sooner.
The rules are written in blood… what blood wrote the rule that you have to slow to 30 MPH?
If your marker stops flashing there is no requirement to slow down. The requirement to slow to 30 MPH applies if you lose communication with the EOT, and are no longer able initiate an Emergency Application from the rear.
If a marker fails (a non-flashing EOT is a failure) enroute you may continue to the next point where the EOT can be repaired or replaced. Note, this is not the final destination for the train or the next crew change point, but the first point you come to where the EOT can be repaired or replaced.
Wabash and I have differing views. That’s fine. My views are based on a rather uncomfortable dressing down the FRA gave my terminal with regard to markers. So, discretion being the better part of valor, I told the FRA man, “Yes, sir. I’ll see that it doesn’t happen again.”
As far as losing com with ETD and slowing to 30 mph, has to do with front to rear com loss, if it is rear to front I am still at track speed becasue I can still initiate an Emergency request from the head end. Slowing the train deals with trying to stop the train and not knowing if you have a complete trainline. ETD failures are an FRA failure and such must be repaired at the next available oppurtunity. A train can run without an ETD but in dark territory this is problemmatic at best as OSing past a specific point has to be done by visual inspection of the rear of the train. ETD’s are a rear marker for a train and as such during the day the red light stays off and during the night the red light comes on.
This question is about that specific train, and my thoughts would be that soemthing is wrong with the head lights of the locomotive, that is why they are not on, and they are usuing the ETD as the back up system for a marker on the rear of the train. The ETD is air powered as has been said before and air powered ETD’s suck! I have had more troubles with air powered ETD’s than with regular ETD’s.
I would be more than happy to drag my rule book out and verify for you and myself that I stated the rule correctly. So at 6pm , I will head home and look it up.
AH! Now it makes more sense in the old synapses. Slowing because you have lost control of a part of the braking system is definitely a good idea. Thanks.
trainboy is right. CPR unit trains are not required to run with an SBU or even a marker as the red CPR engine acts as a marker. CPR has an excemption from Transport Canada that allows them to do that. If you look at the units CN uses on DPU trains they have red marker lights as CN has to have markers on the rear of the train. They can still run without an SBU though.
I’ll agree the only time you need to slow to 30 MPH is if you lose the ability to initiate an emergency application from the rear end. In certain areas of heavy grades, the requirement is to stop and not move until the ability is restored.
You can be out of comm with the EOT for 16 minutes. Most EOT systems will not give you a No-Com until the 16 mins have passed. So once the indication comes on, it’s time to slow down, not 16 minutes later. I also agree, it’s the Front-Rear No Com indication that slows you down. Most of the time I’ve had Rear-Front No Com, I soon lost Front-Rear or the EOT showed Emergency Disabled. Emergency Disabled or Valve Fail indications also requires you to slow to 30 even if you are still in communication with the EOT.
If you have a DPU and you lose communication for over 16 minutes, the same requirement to slow to 30 applies. The same reasoning works here, you’ve lost the ability to initiate a rear end emergency application. The DPU is different in that it doesn’t wait 16 mins before indicating loss of communication.
The few times I’ve had an EOT that the high visiblity marker wasn’t working, I would tell the guy behind me where I was stopped at, which we usually do anyway, and that my EOT was dark.
14 hours later and no reply , I thought you was going to teach me about eot. all the rules . but before you do read the rule, understand the rule, 3 people stated the same thing, you said we was wrong. I stated in the siding its not required ( non-signal) to have a marker. I also didnt say that you can run a flag at night I said if the eot fails its still a marker just like a flag,( or is what i was leaning to ) the simple way of saying this is if i board my train at 1am knock the brakes off the air comes up on rear and as i grab throttle it shows movement things are good. ( emergency is enabled) while moving thru the country side it signals me that marker is off and everything else is fine im not slowing down , dont haft to a light not flashing is not a failer. now same thing i get 100 miles out and 90 miles to go and i have a comm lose f-r this is a warning to slow down to 30 mph or less til i get to the next place to fix or replace this eot.
One thing i have been told if you look at a scanner report and the eot has a number over to the right of it this is a failer code and can be used against the crew, I think what most people are confusing my statement is why would i turn off my marker at night in the siding… its just a statement in that it didnt matter if the light was blinking its not required in the siding, Now i will say this you can have the last word , this seems to be getting personal and I just dont want to flame fight or anything else as such, people who know me on here know sometimes ill lure persons into a conversation with only giving half the info, to keep a discussion going , you wasnt never wrong just going the wrong direction for what i was trying to acomplish, and someone did get me with the signaled siding , but most all railroaders are thick skinn
No offense at all. I just want to make sure that the folks here that dont work for the railroads understand what the rules are.
GCOR rule 5.10.2
Display a reflector, red flag, or light fixture at the rear of the train as the marked when any of the following conditions exist:
For our discusion I will only put the portion of the rule that applies here.
The highly visible marker becomes inoperative enroute. If this occurs, notify the train dispatcher and move the train to the next forward location where the highly visible marker can be repaired or replaced.
As soon as I find where it talks about the speed restriction I will add it.
As I said in my post CPR has an exemption from Transport Canada, that allows them to run without an SBU or marker on the tail of the train when a RED CPR unit is used. Unit trains with a Blue CEFX or Yellow UP unit on the tail of a unit train are required to have an SBU or marker on the rear.
Not saying that he is not right, but a veterian engineer can make mistakes just like everyone else in the world. Thats why I am looking for the exact rule. Not for anyone elses clarifaction, but for my own.
While rarely done, the rules require that the proper functioning of a marking device be confirmed at all crew change points. For the most part, ensuring communication between the front and rear satisfies this. A roll by inspection, by a passing train takes care of the rest.
Though rare, I have had EOTs stop flashing, while still in communication. Some people assume that you have to slow down when the EOT stops flashing because, in vast majority of cases, the darkened EOT is accompanied by a more serious failure, requiring you to slow.
As a side note, some roads, Conrail for example, preferred to use markers rather then a dimmed headlight on helper and light engine moves. That’s why all CR’s locomotives had marker lights.
Wabash, if I came across as harsh with you, I’m sorry. A couple of your posts, reminded me of a certain group of employees that I’m constantly explaining the rules to. Usually when they’re trying to find an excuse not to take the train. How quickly the Trainmaster instinct surfaces.
I have been on this site for some time not always posting and i have been railroading for sometime now, I am not always correct. ( i admitted fault in this subject already) but nobody offended me and it takes alot to offend me ( the m&m fight was a good one) its not a problem for me to have guys go look in the rule book and catch me, but there are rules that i bend the heck out of and some rules i am on the straight and narrow.and you being a trainmaster should know that nobody tips there hand. its a game , and one i am mostly tired of playing , that will be a differant post though. to all have a great day