I’m hesitent to post this as I don’t want to sound like I’m nit-picking or flaming anyone. Not my intention here to put anyone down or hurt feelings. However, I’ve heard comments about what locos and rolling stock, vehicles and such would fit certain eras. In other words people want to be era correct with their trains. Now I’ve seen some really nice layouts in magazines, on the net, and tv. In truth, I have to admit, I admire those people whose great talents allow them such realistic work, that you can feel like your in that scene yourself. However, there are sometimes little things that stick out that breaks that feeling, only because I’m an older gizzer that has lived it and seen it. Store fronts and bill boards depicting products that were used in those days gone past and today and the modeler used the modern day advertisement in a past era. A 1930’s town that you could smell that bakery or hear the kids in the school playground or that chug of a model T pickup, only to have that spell broken by a big bright red stop sign on the corner or yellow center lines in the street. Sometimes it seems like we worry about such things as what valve gear did certain RR’s have on there steam engines, or the bell is in the wrong location or the head light or the loco is a scale 3 inchs too long and then put these models that have been detailed out to be exact replicas into a scene that tries to compliment that model that has so much research and time spent on it to make it perfect. I guess what I’m saying here is that no matter how perfect to scale we make our trains, the scenery we put them in makes the layout a model railroad. Again, no flaming intended, just food for thought and whats on my mind. Ken
Yes have fun [:)]
Erie, your position is well taken. There are, of course, several layers of relative hobbyist experience and knowledge and this can account for much of the erroneous modeling you speak of. Typically, it is the older modelers who best model the 60’s, 50’s or earlier, simply because they lived them and know what was commonplace at the time and what was not. Younger guys, who never saw a particular earlier era, as you say, often incorporate “modern” items into vintage scenes without knowing better, like the color of stop signs and road striping. To them, the signs are read/white now and the striping yellow, so it must always have been so!
I recall a younger fella - a really good modeler - who did an incredibly detailed, early 1960’s-vintage theme, layout. Unfortunately, his 1960’s city looked like George Sellios’ 1930’s City of Franklin: run down, filthy, caricaturish! I was a grown man back in that times and pointed out that early 1960’s modest-sized cities looked nothing like that…for which he could only offer up a weak, "Well, that’s modeler’s license. Modeler’s license is all well a good, and I use it too, but it is not an excuse for not doing the necessary research for a really first class modeling effort intended to depict a certain time frame.
My biggest hang-up are supposedly serious modelers who mix paint schemes/heralds, cars, etc., from all manner of different eras (often some from time yet to come on a particular layout) without a second thought: plugdoor cars in the 30’s, modern autoracks behind steam, you get the idea. It’s not a problem if you are just funning around but it becomes one if you are telling visitors you built your layout to accurately depict 1950.
CNJ831
And remember, you ‘meddling kidz’ have it easy nowadays as opposed to us old folk doing researching during the 1980s - we may have gotten one or two small articles from MR, and we liked it…
Seriously, the internet helps with images and research so much it’s not funny - heck I was able to get an image of a old style Bus Stop Sign (a round disk with an arrow) so I could make a decal out of it and apply it to a molded plastic sign.
But yes, add my voice to those who think obvious anachronisms look bad on a layout, but you don’t have to really sweat whether this type of soda vending machine came out in 1961 or 1962 (but you should think about whether it was around in the 1950s vs 1960s…)
George Sellios layout, while rather neat looking, is rather over the top as you can see comparing it to various photos of depression era urban areas.
However, if the guy you mentioned just moved his time frame to the late 1960s/early 1970s - then it would have worked. Heck, there are many former industrial even today which have run-down, crumbling abandoned buildings loaded with garbage, scrap, and dirt.
actually the mid-sixties had more urban blight tham george selios could manage, railroads going broke, deferred maintnance, cities in decay,business’ moving to suburbs, I recall a lot of areas around the tracks the were less than desireable, interstates taking roads away from towns, it’s more plausible then selios era.
I think modeling a particular era can really be a lot of fun when doing the research. But at what point does it is become a museum-quality historical replica and cease to be a toy train layout??
I have a friend who’s spent so much time doing historical research, he hasn’t gotten to building his layout for fear it will be inaccurate. And you all know what I’m talking about: Paralysis through Analysis. He’s been at it for over 7 years and hasn’t even built the table.
And I suspect 99% of the visitors to someone’s era-specific layout would not observe (nor care) if the roadway signs are not the then-current DOT required scale height. And the 1% who know the specs may not point it out to the builder anyway.
I agree that certain things have to be consistent, say within a particular decade. But beyond that, I think you can expect a visit from the guys in the white coats if you’re not careful, like my friend Mike…LOL
And I must add that I have great admiration for those of you who are so adept at accurately recreating a particular time period. Unfortunately, I have neither the patience nor the talent but I find much satisfaction viewing your work.
Thank goodness our hobby has people of great diversity.
Cam
different era’s have a different feel and look, as life evolves.
Some modelers want just a layout and run anything and mix it up. Thats cool.
FOr me I stick to a theme now, thats my direction, I like steam and electric, dont want much diesels and thats my focus, so I place my time about mid-fifties to match, and it meets some of my modeling goals I want. Biggest steam and electric out there. It makes me wi***he diesel never was because it forestalled steam development. We could have high efficient steam today were it not for diesels, but well, it dont go that way.
There could be new and different locos in the future where it goes now, dunno, but I like the period I model.
cheers.
It’s okay for you you lived there/then!
Things that bug me…
- getting autos and trucks to fit my era (1980s)
- advertising and products for store fronts.
- to some extent clothes.
- Loco types aren’t too bad but some derivatives are time-obscure
- Livery changes aren’t too bad but deatils are near impossible unless I invest a lot of time, effort and probably money. (What dates did the Amtrak phaeses start)?
- Car build start dates. Walthers on-line catalogue appears to be doing better on this with its potted histories… but why not put start date/era on the packaging so i can see it straight off when i’m in the store?
I’ll probably think of some more things later…
Like establishing just what signalling i want???[banghead]
Hey Ifound the smilies! [yeah]
I agree that if someone tries to pass along their layout as “prototypical” but has those errors, yea, everyone has the right to complain. Although if someone has those errors, but doesn’t try to pass his layout off as “prototypical” that’s totally fine. I know my layout would make a rivet-counter go CRAZY! You could easily see a set of CGW F-units running a train with modern autoracks alongside an Alaska RR passenger train with a 80’s car in the parking lot of thetrain stationt. But do I tell visitors “our layout is based on the BNSF line from Chicago west in 1960 or 1980 or modern”? No, I say what it is, two fictional cities on the outer edge of the Chicago are on the BNSF out west through Lincoln via Southern Iowa.
just remember that in real life, train companys what ever their name did what was needed to get the job done. There are pics of steam being sent out to help an overloaded diesel over a hill. As for citys, in the 1960’s there were places in Baltimore where Georges work would be seen as a major cleanup effort was on the way!
When I started out in 1961 w/my 1st layout I was modeling the early 50’s. It was almost impossible back then to get the items you needed to do that era. Then in 1980 I tried doing the 80’s & still had problems getting all the goodies that was needed to do That Era. Now, the GAP RR that I am modeling now is all modern. I do a lot of scratch building the more modern buildings, skyscrapers, etc.
I like the big powerful diesels that pull long trains. W/the grades that I have a steam engine has a hard time pulling more than 6 cars w/out a diesels help. My layout is 18 by 36 ft. & about 5 years old.
I use a lot of older diesels & change the names to my liking. Almost every other year I make it to a local train show & sell some of my older stuff & buy the newer engines. When I first started this layout the radius of my mainlines were big enough for the smaller diesels. Now, that I’m running the longer engines I had to make some changes. I’m getting away from the subject of ERA’s or the golden years of steam verses diesel.
That is the reason I went modern. I have a lot of older vehicles on my roads, 57 Chevies, Hot Rods, etc. A lot of the older buildings blending in w/the modern stuff. When people visit my layout they have to come back time after time to just see what I have added or changed or to see what they missed the last time. LOL
I love to see other layouts to get idea’s for mine wheather it’s old or new. I have a lot of Steam engines & old passenger cars & I run them for the weekend excursion or tourist trains.
I have way to much running stock & not enough room to store it in plane sight. I guess I’m going to have to add on in the near future. I have 1 table left to add track to. It’s 2 ft. wide & 36 ft. long.
Maybe I’ll put my 65 engines & 250 freight cars & 40 passenger cars out for scrutiny.
GAP RR (Gulf-Atlantic-Pacific) {Coast to Coast to Coast}