Ethanol Trains Question

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

What is the rule for transporting ethanol? Often I see ethanol trains with 1 or 2 locomotives and a boxcar or other type of car between the locomotives and the ethanol cars. When theres 3 or more locomotives the ethanol cars are sometimes directly behind them. I assume this extra car is to provide a safety barrier between the crew and the hazardous cargo and that a 2 car length distance is required. But now and then I’ll see an ethanol train with one or two locos and no spacer. Why is this?

Thanx

2

Depends loads Require the Spacer if Empty they can get by without it.

3

Yes it depends upon if the train is loaded or not. God forbid the spacer car ever be needed though.

-Justin

4

If its all loads, all it needs is 1 (one) buffer car, and the un-manned locomotive fulfills this function.

Empty, it can run as is with no buffer required.

Depending on how the loaded cars are going to be spotted at their final destination, the boxcar you see on occasion may be used as a buffer car because the locomotive might end up being manned in one of the movements.

5

yesterday CSX had a buffer car on the rear of the train as well.

stay safe

Joe

6

Ethanol trains require a Helper over Sand Patch. It can be quite a ordeal at Connellsville to locate something to be used as a buffer if a Flatland Yardmaster never considers that a manned helper will be shoving the train out of Connellsville and over the Sand Patch grade.

7

We usually only send one buffer going South or East. If CSX wants a rear buffer, they can deal with it themselves or they can co-ordinate with the plant. We get tired of collecting junk cars from them that were used as buffers and not billed back to them. CASO learned the hard way, that if the buffers are junk like their shoving platform, we will scrap them on site.

Most plants have their own loaded cars for buffers, so we don’t have to use a system car. Of late, certain trains going South to Texas or West to E. Oakland have been set up DPU, again with an additional buffer on the rear.

It is up to the marketers to make sure that when a train is released from the end terminal, that the proper buffers are returned to the plant.

8

That aint our job, nor our railroad’s. As I said before, if CSX wants a rear buffer, and has not talked to the plant, too bad. We have more important things to do than babysit CSX. Maybe CSX needs to get into the 21st Century and go DPU. I rather doubt it since they cannot even deliver units in interchange that are not close to, or past due inspection.

9

Obviously, many of you have not passed a DOT HazMat test recently. Look up UN 1987 and try again sport.

10

According to 49 United States Code, Alcohol/Ethanol do not REQUIRE a buffer car. It is up to the railroad if they want to add one.

11

Nice try sport. This says otherwise. http://boe.aar.com/boe/download/2005-united-states-hazardous-materials-instructions-for-rail.pdf

I make my living building locals that handle empty ethanol. And build manifests with loads. I have pulled my share of ethanol unit trains from plants. And have been doing so since 2001. You think I would know?

12

Well sport,

According to UP’s Instructions for Handling Hazardous Materials, Form 8620, (PB20800) effective 0900 CDT Monday, September 22, 2008…

Placement in train chart, page 40, column C, tank car, residue/empty shows no restrictions other than it may not be placed next to an engine, occupied caboose or business car…

If it is a unit train and all cars are carrying the same commodity or all cars are empty/ residue, the FRA says it may run with one buffer, they allow the un-manned locomotive to be used as that buffer.

Column D, loaded requires at least one buffer between a manned locomotive and between the load and the following, any class 1, class 2 or class 7, which are explosive, inhalation hazard or radioactive respectively.

Ethanol is UN 1170, it is a flammable liquid hazard class 3.

It may also be shipped under UN 1987alcohols, n.o.s., (not otherwise specified)

Empty/residue requires no buffer besides the un manned locomotive and has no restrictions on placement in train beyond the occupied caboose/business car restriction.

BNSF runs their loaded and empty diesel fuel train under the same conditions, using the un manned locomotive as the buffer.

Because diesel is a combustible class 3, the empty requires no buffer at all and can be used as buffer or cover car.

13

Hmm. Am I sure of what I’m seeing here…? Someone about 4,500 miles away from the Union Pacific Railroad arguing its operating practices with someone who actually works for that company?

14

99% of ethanl is shipped under UN 1987 because it is denatured. A few plants started in 2001 using UN 1993, but the FRA changed that in about 2004.

15

I wouldn’t expect UP to do anything…I would expect Chicago or Willard to do something! The UP knows nothing about CSX requirements nor should they.

While CSX has a number of engines equipped for DPU operation, there is no system wide implementation of DPU, which would work well for Ethanol and the PRB coal trains that CSX receives…I suspect the PRB coal trains, either from UP or BNSF have their DPU engine cut off in Chicago, or at least before delivery to CSX.

16

Then we agree. Empty hazmat, in this case, ethanol UN 1987 must have a buffer between the locomotives and train. Which is the subject of the thread.

17

I just reviewed my position-in-train chart in my rulebook:

For us, class 3 cars (loaded or unloaded) are not allowed next to an engine. It makes no distinction between occupied or unoccupied. Note: this is for trains that are not switching in a yard or at a customer’s facility. That gets its own position chart.

I’ve yet to see anything written down that would allow us to use an unmanned locomotive as a buffer.

18

On the UP, if a car can’t go next to an engine, it can’t go next to any engine. Manned, unmanned, dead and drained doesn’t matter. If you look at the wording, it says “…next to an engine (working or not)…” A locomotive on the UP can’t be a buffer.

For those seeing an ethanol train without buffer car(s). Are you actually seeing this, or are you seeing an entire train of tank cars, thinking they are all loaded or residue empties? A tank car that is nonplacarded or one placarded from the group with no restrictions can be used as a buffer. You might be seeing a buffer car(s) and not know it.

If you’re going to place a buffer car at the rear of a loaded train, you’re going to need six cars to do so. Five between the engines and cars, then one on the rear. The instructions say use 5 cars if available. If you have less than 5 use all available. So if you have only two cars on a loaded (nonDPU) train, they both will have to be on the head end. Empties only require one, so if a train is empty then you could have one on both ends.

Jeff

19

A few observations and questions…

  1. I am not a railroader and am not stating a familiarity with the rules.

  2. CSX ethanol trains are almost always between 75 and 85 cars with 81 cars seeming to be the most common car number. When I see a CSX train (usually in the K600 series), there is a buffer car.

  3. Almost always if there is CSX power, there are 2 units. If these are off the UP, there are 2 units. If off the CP (ICE) normal is 3 units. Further…

  4. CSX does not appear to be running DPU on the PRB coal trains off of BNSF or UP. Trains seem to have 2 head end units. CN PRB trains off both railroads now run with DPU units on the rear. The Valpo hill may be the requirement for the DPU units. Several years ago, these trains were stalling regularly on the hill. The CSX grade thru Suman Valley is not as severe and train speed is usually in the range of 15-19 mph.

  5. CSX seems to be adding ethanol trains on a regular basis. Is it safe to assume that a CSX designation symbol is unique to a certain movement? In other words does a specific symbol refer to a train with a specific origin/destination and interline railroad movement?

  6. Yesterday, I added two new symbols to my CSX data…K645 and K697, both WB empties (presume). CSX across northern Indiana seems to be running more ethanol than PRB coal trains these days. Note…I have been compiling CSX trains symbols with times, number of cars, etc since October in an excel spreadsheet and while I havent done any analysis, my seat of the pants observations is that ethanol movements are increasing rather rapidly. Is these observations consistent with reality?

Thanks,

Ed

20

On the NS, we comply with the United States Hazardous Materials Instructions for Rail (HM-1). The definition of a Buffer Car is a non-placarded rail car, a rail car with a placard or marking shown in Group E on the Position-in-Train Chart, a residue/empty tank with no other restrictions, or a placarded rail car with no other restrictions. An unoccupied locomotive CAN NEVER be considered as a Buffer Car with the point being that you don’t want to place an internal combustion engine next to any explosive or flammable rail car.

For General Freight Trains when train length permits, Placarded Cars in Groups 1, 2 and 3 and placarded tank cars in Group 4 must not be nearer than the 6th car from an engine or any occupied caboose, shoving platform, or passenger car. If length does not permit, must be near the middle of the train.

An exception to the above is for unit ethanol trains which on the NS only require one buffer car between the locomotives and the loaded ethanol tanks.

Hope this helps!