We all read about quality problems right out of the box on both MTH and Lionel units. I have purchased units off Ebay and found wires or rollers loose or missing. I sent my Lionel TI Duplex in for repair and when it came back (via UPS) the shims holding in the front guide wheels were broken. I have moved twice recently, both times over 1000 miles. The frist time not one thing was broken. The second time EVERY picture frame was cracked, the car was scratched, the bike was scratched and many other things were broken. The driver said he saw the vehicles in front of him dip and slammed on the brakes but hit a massive bump on the highway.
I also remember designing refrigeration equipment for real trains. We had to add extra “snubbers” so the engine would not jump out of the unit during bumps in coupling/uncoupling. If I remember correctly we had to expect several g’s. I also remember containers begin “tossed” off ships during storms. I am sure containers get banged around in loading and unloading. Plus you have the possible salt exposure if a container leaks. If the problem is on an entire container then we could expect bad “lots” of equipment.
This leads me to wonder…
How much of the quality problem we see do you suppose is caused by shipping from China and then across the US via train and truck?
That is a GREAT point! We’d like to believe that companies such as MTH and Lionel would have good quality control and they must know that good news and bad news travels at roughly the same rate. So… with that being said, I’d guess that shipping etc, would account for a certain percentage. The fellow at MTH told me EVERY engine is test run. I have no reason to doubt him, he very honest in every way, so how does a Shay not run out of the box? The driver design has been changed and is now pinned, so I’d say that design is weak, and a recall really should be in order. Knowing mine was not pinned, I would have insisted it be returned and the new drivers with pinning be installed, if I worked at MTH. Just a thought, Jake
Well, shipping could be an issue, but I do not think so. With so many products shipped to the US from the far east I think there would be a public outcry if we were talking about something other than toy trains. Automobiles, computers, DVD players, iPods, electronic components, etc. all are shipped by container to the US.
I believe that the complexity of today’s toy trains is extremely high. I do not believe either Lionel or MTH (and their suppliers) have the appropriate quality controls in place yet. Having said that, I also believe that the quality will improve and that within three to five years it will no longer be an issue.
You can toss a steel coil, chain it down and gently take it from point A to B and ensure it dont get jostled and damaged. You do want that nice washing machine in the store to look dent/mark free dontcha?
Or you can toss a Broadway Limited HO scale engine into the back of a UPS truck with a pile of other boxes driven by horse whipped drivers who have to account for every minute of thier workday. I prefer to fly my stuff in thank ye.
I seriously doubt that MTH tests anything. I have had two recent premier engines fail right out of the box. One was dead in the water and the other did not smoke at all. Smoking is not a shipping problem. It is poor quality control from the factory and MTH could care less. Throw it on the wall and hope it sticks and charge big prices.
Tim was the fellow at MTH that assured me every single premier engine is test run and could never get out of the starting gate without a good test run. I don’t know, I’m just a dumb tree buyer and bamboo fly rod maker. I just like toy trains. The old stuff is starting to look mighty good again though. Jake
Had boards jarred aloose from shipping and had to be plugged back in. Had one drooped so hard the engineer was unglued and that one had can motor damage. I now take the shell off and reseat the boards when I get one shipped by any courier.
I always try to double-box and include plenty of shock-absorbing material when I ship something. And I always insure it! But once it leave’s your hands, it’s a total crap shoot.
I have talked with a freind who worked at the post office in Homestead FL and he said the best way to ship anything is to insure it! That way every person who touches the package has to sign for it. Think about it-you put your signature on something and you do not want a report coming in saying that the package you handled was damaged, the customer will get paid! the employee may get docked some pay, so that is why you want to insure something, the person who ships something insured gets paid if any damages to the contents of the package.
I hate to disagree with Swipesy, but MTH does in fact check every locomotive in their Maryland facility - I’ve seen it done. If you look in the Sept 2005 issue (p. 46) you’ll see Mike Wolf and Andy Edleman in front of a row of switchers that were in the process of being tested before re-packaging.
I don’t know if Lionel does this today, but when they had a factory in Michigan, they did.
One of the workers was showing me a small building within the building they built to perform conventional and command mode tests of 100% of their locomotives. I was told that previously, testing was done on a random sample basis.
I asked if it paid off, and the fellow told me that they’d found 40% of a particular premium diesel were defective, and were returned to the line for correction. To use a cliche, that would have been a train wreck if 40% of a product were defective. Oh, the QC fellow also told me that it was an employee driven initiative.
Oh, the building was built within the building for soundproofing in order to listen for sound system and mechanical issues.
Really, though, I suspect the failure rate is not too dissimilar in the entire consumer electronics field. I’ve seen it across the spectrum: computer components, stereo systems, TV/VCR, etc. all failing right out of the box.
As others have noted, parts come loose, wires get strained, joints fail, mechanisms get jammed. Even things you wouldn’t think could suffer from it–like smoke units–do.
Thats why I thought it was such a great idea that the employees jumped on it to prevent those defective locos from reaching the market.
There are enough things that can go wrong one it is in the box and on the way out the door, and their proactive steps had to have saved plenty of repair time (and disgruntled customer returns). I was pretty impressed with that crew.
Great point Jim!!! As a matter of fact, I just received a UPS package (not a train, thank goodness) that looked like the proverbial elephant stepped on it. The box was heavy duty corrugated cardboard and was very well sealed and constructed. But it was smashed beyond belief. The UPS guy tossed it on my doorstep and ran back to his truck like the devil himself was after him. I watched this whole thing out my front window. Luckily, the box only contained a soft flexible vinyl pouch I use for holding my radar detector. I have also stood in the Post Office and watched the staff there toss Priority Mail packages around like they were Joe Namath trying for a Hail Mary pass. They did this with impunity right in front of customers waiting to pick up their packages. I joked with the guy standing in line in front of me that those boxes were the ones marked “fragile”. [(-D]
I shudder to think at the treatment of delicate electronics shipped via delievery companies in the US. [xx(]
I’m going to 10-22 my earlier assessment of MTH and after talking with the guys at MTH and gals, I think they do everything they can do make sure their product leaves there in 100% excellent condition. Jake
Bob, I don’t doubt what you saw at MTH all but how do you explain me receiving, direct shipped from MTH, two premier locomotives that the smoke unit did not work right out of the box? I have a very hard time believing the problem was in shipping since I fixed the problem. One had a piece of foreign material caught in the output vent and the other had the wick not touching the heating element. If MTH tested either locomotive they would have noticed they did not smoke.
I truly like MTH products but when you pay $900 to $1000 for a locomotive I think they should work out of the box. When they don’t then MTH has a quality control problem.
I used to design air conditioners for mobile medical units (Think a 48’ trailer loaded with MRI coils and loads of computers). Since the units were full of computers we were VERY careful about never leaving “chips” of metal, loose screws, and junk around. All the trailers had special air ride suspensions and the computers also had air ride shocks. We tried to keep the insides like a clean room. One time I had to test a unit at White Sands New Mexico. I was the last one in to inspect the perfectly clean flawless unit before it left Florida. I was also the first one in to inspect it after it reached New Mexico. It was a disaster! There were bolts, screws, dirt and grime all over the interior. The floor was loaded with stuff. And this was in a unit that was never handled (ie like a package from truck to truck) or sorted. All it did was travel over 1000 miles.
Trust me…shipping is very hard on some things and VERY VERY rough on others. I could see a wick shifting and a piece of material coming from somewhere to get in the way. We really can not imagine the amount of bouncing a truck does or the amount of bumping a trailer suffers.
Regarding MTH’s testing: I recently purchased the Premier Milw. Rd. EF2 set plus aux. D unit, over $1,400 total. The set ran, but a rear marker light was busted and one of the powered units had a bent motor shaft causing a horrific squeaking. So, if MTH tested this item, it wasn’t much of a test drive. MTH has fixed the problems, though now a cab light burned out.
I’m not defending them, just noting that they do test the stuff before it leaves their headquarters - it is easier to check (and if need be fix) something before it leaves, than to deal with unhappy customers who receive a defective train - as the many QC-related threads in this forum show.
I’ve bought plenty of trains that fell apart when taken out of the box, or which looked okay but didn’t run (or died). The manufacturers know that all it takes is one or two or three defective engines and they’ve lost a customer FOREVER.