Who can explain the workings of Union Pacific’s Gas Turbine locomotives? What fuel did they use? Describe the propulsion system. They appear to haul a tender, is this right? Was this an experiment, or were there production runs of the locos? Anything else you can tell?
Thanks!!
i am not entirely sure, but i think gas was burned, the smoke turned a turbine, which generated electricity that turned the wheels.
alot like a power plant
Suck squeeze burn blow
The gas turbine…a jet engine powered a generator which in turn powered the traction motors…basically nothing more that a diesel with a jet powering the generator instead of a diesel. The tenders carried fuel…lots of it becasue they ate it. Jet engine or turbine fuel efficiency at sea level is low, paricularly back then…the turbines that the Navy uses in destroyers are more efficient but still drink alot of fuel. The fuel was basically DFM …navy speak for low grade jet fuel similiar to kerosene mius the additives. Cheaper than diesel per gallon.
I stand corrected. It looks like they used Bunker C…which I think is less refined than DFM.
there was also an expirimental version using coal
Bunker C fuel is basically asphalt without the gravel in it. It needs to be about 180 degree F to flow. Also the build up in the vanes would be a problem along with wear and/or erosion.
But basically a jet engine hooked to a generator.
DT
Pentrex made a couple vidios about the turbines “Union Pacific Turbines of the Wasath” and “Union Pacific’s Mighty Turbines”.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/turbine_faq.html
Describes the complicated nature of these beast as far as starting them up. The Bunker C was preheated in the tender.
Here is some UP turbine history:
the first UP turbine were steam turbines UP 1 and 2, used for a short while in 1939 but returned to GE to be used by Great Northern Service in 1943 than returned to GE and scrapped in 1944.
from 1949 - 1951 UP ( and late 1951 SP) tested a GE demo turbine UP 50
the picture of this resin model is is a standard turbine, UP51 - 60, build 1952-1953, used from 1952 - 1964
Than came the veranda turbines: they used GP9B’s as extra on all but 6 the veranda turbines #61 - 75 build in 1954, they ran from 1954 - 1964
The big or the super turbines, Lead engine, B unit and tender, 8500 - 10000 HP, UP1 - 30 were built between 1958-1961 and ran from 1958 - 1970
fuel: Bunker C fuel oil, but #57 was modified to burn propane, supplied by a 12,500 gallon LPG tank-car
As an experiment in super kit-bashing late 1959 they started building a coal turbine, UP80 (later renumbered 8080) even bigger than the Super turbines, after static tests in 1962 it ran short periods in 1963 and 1964.
this giant consisted of a control unit rebuilt from an ALCO PA-1, a coal-burning turbine unit made from Great Northern straight electric locomotive 5018 and a coal supply tender from an retired 4-6-6-4.
info found in: Withers publishing book UP’s TURBINE ERA by A.J.Wolf
That would be the Norfolk and Western Class TE1 6-6-6-6 Experimental Steam Turbine & Electric Drive freight locomotive, naturally!
N&W just didn’t want to give up burning coal.
Here’s a link to a photo. Scroll down the page.
Not exactly. He is referring to UP 8080 a coal fired gas turbine electric, no steam.
Yep nfmisso, you are right ! ( I edited in a picture of 8080 in the other post)
but the turbines in the weblink look awsome specially the 6-6-6-6, it looks like it was taken out of a old science fiction movie!
go to the Lionel website and they have a good explaination of the workings of the UP gas turbines and the history behind them.
That thing looks like it should have ACME painted on the side and Wile E Coyote at the throttle…
you are right dharmon, I think this is the ultimate kitbashing!
doing it in GRAND SCALE with real POWERTOOLS!
Thanks, guys! Lots of good info!
Here’s an explaination of a gas turbine engine: http://travel.howstuffworks.com/turbine1.htm Dave
I was off pretty far on that one[:D]
I saw one of those things for real when I was a kid. One disadvantage to them was they were LOUD!!! They woul drive every dog within miles absolutely nuts when they went through town due to the ultrasonic component of the noise they made. (just imagine standing behind a 727 when it takes off, and you have a rough idea!!!)
What seems to be missing from this discussion is “why did UP drop using these turbines?” The data I got from the UP in 1958 (during the peak period of usage of the Veranda) was that they did an excellent job pulling trains. But, … sitting in the yard at idle speed consumed 60% of the fuel that they did when running. But as mentioned above, using Bunker C fuel, which had to be kept hot, you couldn’t very well shut them off unless connected to a steam supply, and the startup was not much fun.
So, basically, this turns out to be a great idea for an engine that you run all the time, but most engines spend significant time sitting in yards, or making short connection runs, and thus, the idea didn’t really work.