This is my first post so please pardon my lack of knowledge.
I’d like to build my 15 month old son (ok…me too!) a 6’x8’ layout for the O Guage train he received as a gift last Christmas (Lionel Polar Express). It’s going in the garage and will be suspended from the rafters.
I plan on using 3/8" ply on top of 1x2 framework on top of 2x4 support structure. Two of the parallel 2x4’s will have outriggers w/eyebolts for raising/lowering. It will also have four retractable 2x4 legs.
Questions:
Both extruded foam (pink & blue) and homasote appear difficult to find in Los Angeles. Does anyone know of a supplier in the South Bay Area? Any luck ordering from Home Depot / Lowe’s?
What alternatives do you suggest if extruded foam and homasote are not available?
Thank you for your time and assistance.
James1970
PS: The layout will hovering above a car (don’t ask me the year/model…you’ll think me crazy!). It will be supported by (4) 658lb strength/each pulleys, 3/16 cable and a 1,800lb. strength winch. I also plan to add additional safety cables at each pulley and will circle the layout with two additional cables when raised. Overkill perhaps but I can’t get the saying “train wreck” out of my head. Your insight/comments is also appreciated in this regard.
Hi. The next best thing is styrofoam of the beaded and heat-pressed type that electronic appliances come packaged…if you want foam. If you can’t get styrofoam at all, and I am guessing you won’t be able to get it if you can’t also get the extruded, then I would use no less than 5/8" GIS plywood supported on 20" centres on a simple frame. Use cork or foam roadbed for your tracks, and build up layers of plaster over crumpled paper and tape hills for topography.
If you have the general skills, consider using L-girder construction framing, risers from joists, and splined roadbed. That means, however, that you must build topography using cardboard, chicken wire, cloth supported by grocery bags filled with crumpled newspaper, whatever, and plaster or a goop slathered over it. I am on my second layout, and am at the stage where I am building the land between the splines. It is a bit of a challenge, but will be quite spectacular (me hopes) when it is finally ready to roll.
I would hope that your state laws don’t prohibit the importation of extruded foam…
As for the homasote, it is available, but needs special treatment in order to maintain its shape and integrity in areas with large fluctuations in humidity. You’ll have to seal it at some point, or it will absorb moisture and get soft. I believe that most modelers use it strictly for silent roadbed, although some may use it as a general base. It would need lots of support below it.
I’d stay away from beaded styrofoam as a layout building material. It has almost no structural integrity, is prone to warping when used in fairly thin cross sections, and is very soft. You’d be much better off with some other material if extruded styrofoam can’t be found.
All true, Ed, but these deficiencies can be overcome to a large extent. Again, if it has to be foam…of some kind…, then this gentleman will possibly be restricted to the beaded kind. It can be glued down with latex caulk just as the extruded stuff can. Sure, it will be messier, and will not withstand the spans, but if he wants it for a surface that is supported by plywood or joists below, it should suffice.
FWIW, I can get the extruded stuff anywhere, so I would agree with you to avoid the other…big-time. In his case…if he has no option, and if he must have foam, then…
Extruded foam is not illegal in California. It is hard to find in warm-weather areas.
Here are details on how to find a supplier. (Note: Although nearly all Home Depot stores will be shown as suppliers, very few actually stock it. So call first.) It helps to find the right store by calling on the phone (before driving), and the manufacturers provide resources to get you started.
You are looking for “FOAMULAR” insulation board. When I use the website, I usually find a couple of dozen dealers within a reasonable radius of most CA locations. (Some of those are Home Depot stores which again are not likely to actually stock the products that you want … so you should try the smaller chains and independent stores first.)
Dow (maker of the blue foam) has a phone number for locating large dealers:
(866) 583-2583
… but in my experience, they often will not have a large dealer to whom they sell directly in warm-weather areas, so they refer you to their two largest nationwide distributors:
Blue Links (888) 502-2583
Weyerhaeuser (877) 235-6873
Usually one of these has had a dealer near where I was searching.
My clients have found pink or blue foam in the Scotts Valley and Felton areas, San Jose, Sacramento, and the East Bay in northern California and in the San Fernando Valley in So Cal.
The Dow and Owens-Corning sources mentioned above have information nationwide, b
Thank you gentlemen for taking the time to educate me.
As Byron noted, weight is a consideration with a suspended layout so using foam exclusively may be the way to go. However, I guess I’ll have to see what’s available and that may short-list my options.
Final question, do folks use a combination of foam & homasote to maximize flexibility in layout decoration while minimizing track noise? Which of these underlayments would you use if you could only use one?
I had historically laid my 3 rail O track directly on plywood, but it is loud. On a more recent 3 rail layouts I used outdoor grass “carpet” on top of the plywood. Helped significantly with the sound. For a Christmas layout I built a frame of 1x3 and installed 1.5" extruded foam inside the frame. Glued 1/4" plywood on top of the foam to give track and accessory screws something to bite into. The foam/plywood laminate was extrememly rigid, and just needed the 1x3 frame with no other support for a 46" x 60" layout. The plywood/foam laminate was as quiet as the carpet - a significant improvement over bare plywood, but still plenty loud with 3 rail trains running.
On HO layouts, I have used Homasote because of it’s spike holding qualities (for handlaid track). Homasote will also hold your track screws quite nicely. On a future (in planning stage, I have not tried this construction technique yet) shelf layout, I plan to glue Homasote on top of a 1" foam/ 1/4" plywood laminate. The Homasote will provide the surface and noise reduction for my handlaid track; the foam/plywood will provide support for the Homasote, and will be lighter and less susceptible to instability due to moisture than straight plywood. Drawback is the increased thickness of the roadbed/subroadbed combination.
James: I have plywood base with 2" foam glued to the topm that way you can cut away land features, rivers, gullys , underpasses, etc. I wish I could mail you some foam, we have carloads here in HD in central Massachusetts. Have you checked to see how far you would to drive to a HD that carries foam? Do you know anyone who might be travelling out to LA that could bring some in their car?
James - For a layout like the one you are making, one that is being raised and lowered, I’d go with the Carpeting idea as mentioned above. It’s a classic material used in toy train layouts. In fact the toy train look may be best for a 15 mo. old. Pre-formed styrofoam tunnels are readily available at hobby shops and can be moved and placed around the layout easily. Ceramic light up buildings are available at Micheals craft store and are sized right for Lionel trains Check out some of the Lionel operating accessories also. The Rotary Beacon is a classic as well as the Automatic Gateman. For a young child the more lights and movement the better.
Good luck and have fun
Click on picture to enlarge
Thought of something else. The Lionel engine is heavy and when it gets going fast has plenty of momentum. A “railing” of sorts, maybe a 1 x 4 screwed to the edges of the layout can keep your trains from taking a tumble.