I am planning on building a 3-rail O gauge layout for my kids. I want to use extruded foam as the base for the layout. When I build my bench work, should I install a layer of plywood on top of the bench work, or can I lay the sheet of foam insulation directly on top of the bench work (Simple open grid)? I was hoping to avoid using plywood but I assume I should use it to support the weigh of the equipment (O-gauge) and to reduce vibration and noise. Anybody have any experiences or suggestions when using extruded foam? Thanks.
Suggestions:
I can’t imagine the foam alone wouldn’t sag badly.
I think you could get away with foam on open grid benchwork if you put under each track a spine made of maybe 1/4" plywood 4" high. It would have to be attached at each end to the benchwork. It would be nice, also, to glue at the top to one or both sides of the spine some dimensional wood, maybe 3/4" x 3/4", to help take the direct load from the foam–O gage stuff is pretty heavy. This’ll act as a bridge girder to support the foam.
As to noise, I’ve heard that foam can be noisy, and I don’t see the above approach helping any.
Ed
Two inch foam laid over a 18" or even 24" square grid work ought to be strong enough even for Lionel. Couple of things to consider.
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Fasteners of any kind won’t hold in foam. You would have to leave the track just lying loose atop the foam, (this works) or secure it with adhesives (layout changes become very difficult). Track nails won’t work.
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Foam is relatively soft, the edges of the layout want some wood protection to keep them from wearing and looking raggedy after a short time.
The traditional underpinnings for a Lionel layout are a piece of Homasote laid over plywood. The Homasote deadens sound and takes track nails well. The plywood keeps the Homasote from sagging over time.
Hello I put down 1/2 inch plywood then 3/4 foam. So far its been ok. The foam will dent if you lean on it and my sag over time if the space is to far from center to center. Hope this helps Frank
My HO layout is built using 2" extruded foam (both pink and blue) on open-grid with 1x2" supports spaced 18" apart. The foam is extremely sturdy, so I would think that it would be quite sufficient for Lionel O gauge. As mentioned by other posters, you’d have to glue the roadbed and track down to prevent shifting, as the foam does NOT take track nails well. I’ve used Elmer’s Carpenter glue to attach the roadbed, and while it’s very sturdy, it will come up relatively clean if you need to adjust or relay track.
My layout is about 15 years old now, and I’ve not had any ‘sagging’ problems with the foam at all. In fact, my only wish is that here in California, the extruded foam was a little more available, these days.
Tom
I have 2" foam on 1" x 4"s. I climb up on it by kneeling on a 2’ x 3’ piece of plywood. So far no ill effects from my 200 Lbs. I see no signs of sagging foam anywhere. Personally I hate working through foam on plywood it’s a real pain. I would use one or the other on its own. Using a very thin coat of latex caulk to hold down the track makes it easy to remove.
Brent[C):-)]
I built a 4ft x 5ft portable Christmas layout to use my Lionel equipment. I built a picture frame of 1x3, put 1.5" extruded foam on the bottom, and glued a layer of 1/4" Luaun plywood on top. The result was far more rigid than I expected or needed. The foam and frame would sit directly on a surface - desk, table, floor - so no intermediate supports were needed. The layout would usually overhang the edge of the desk or table - sometimes up to a foot - and that overhang gave me no problems.
Putting the plywood on top gave me a surface to which to screw the track (I used O and O27 tubular track) and accessories to.
For simplicity, I kept the wiring on top of the layout. But you can a slit into the foam and push the wire into the slit, and it will stay there.
just my experiences
Fred W
I have found that the large white plastic screw-type wall anchors do a good job in extruded foam. Once they are in place, even inserted with some glue that won’t ‘eat’ the foam, you can then use deck screws or wood screws with good effect. Within reason, of course.
Crandell
My previous layout had 2" form on top of a 1x4 open grid. I made 4 sections, each 2x8 (the size of the foam sheets) with cross braces on 2’ centers (give or take - close is good enough, it doesn;t have to be accurate to the millimeter). The foam was glues tot he wood with yellow carpenter’s glue. Stacks of MRs distributed on top held things in palce for a day while the glue dried. Even bumping my head on it while underneath did not pop it loose. Fasteners won;t hold anyway, but the glue is PLENTY strong enough, even with it just on the edge of 1x lumber. No need for plywood. And rigid foam insulation board will NOT sag, not ove those distances. Support an 8 foot piece just by the ends, sure it will. But support it laong the edges and every 2 feet across, no sag. I cut square holes all the way through to drop in Tortoise switch motors, and even in the yard area with lots of turnouts close together, there was no discernable weakening of the structure.
–Randy
Welcome to the forums.
I see no problem with strength as long as you follow some of the above suggestions. My question would be the weight of the trains pushing the made on ties into the soft foam. Cork would be a good choice or you could use 1/4" plywood if you wanted to do more cutting. You could also put additional ties under the track to bear the weight. I wouldn’t use less than 2" foam if you want to have any below track grade scenery.
You might go to the Classic Toy Trains section of the forums and see what the folks there have to say about their experiences. They do more with O scale, the folks here are mostly in HO and N scale.
Good luck,
Richard
On one section of my layout, I used a sheet of plywood under the foam. What a pain THAT turned out to be. I didn’t have the forethought (sense) to realize that wiring it would mean drilling holes in the plywood to feed the wires through. I ended up using a hole saw to drill through the plywood, then using a tool I made from a wire hanger to feed the wire through the foam (the foam is almost a foot thick).
Marlon,
You might try drilling through the foam and plywood with an extra long drill bit of appropriate diameter (they come in various lengths) available at Lowe’s and using a plastic drinking straw or hollow plastic coffee stirrer as a conduit to pass the wire through the two layers.
Bob
I overdid it on this layout, because I originally had plans that included a local elemnt with a coal trestle up above the street, and calculating somethign that looked good meant more than 2" of foam, so my first section was built with 2 layes of 2" foam - so I just continued the rest exactly the same. I do have a spt where I plan to cut away the foam to have a signature bridge cross a street, so all’s not wasted. I also put 1/2" plywood under it this time. FOr my feeder holes I have a long drill bit, also for the turnout activation wires that come up under the throwbar. All was fine until I started on the section that is under the slopign wall - there’s no enough clearance for the drill plus long bit. Since it’s actually easy to drill through foam, I just turn the but by hand until it’s down to the plywood, then I have enough room to attach the drill on top and finish the hole. Minor inconvenience. Next time, back to the single layer foam with no plywood.
–Randy