Ok all here is the problem i think i am haveing, i have a 3 foot by 6 foot N-Scale layout and the outside loop of track goes from zero to 1 inch in the space of 43 inches, now i have asked on here before and was told this gave me an approxamatly 2% grade, maybe just over, now from what i have read that is really not that steep, well i wish my locomotives could read because i seem to have a hard time convincing them of that! lol, and without some major rip out and redo work i can’t see any way to change it, so here’s the dumb ? part of the post, my layout is supported on 6 legs, if i where to either raise the front three or lower the back three by around a half an inch would that not drop my grade by half? to my fuddled mind that seems to make sense but i have been wrong before and thought i would ask first, as always thanks in advance for any info.
Well it depends on where on the table the track lies. It will lessen that grade but induce grades in other places of course. Might make your rivers run uphill too. [:-^]
Is it on a curve? It that is the case, the curve makes things worse.
David B
Are you sure the problem is the grade and not the transition between level and grade? You have to be careful with a vertical curve as it can really reduce pulling power if too abrupt.
Andre
Yes sir it is, starts right in the middle of a curve in fact, i have heard that does add drag, right now only one of my steamers will handle it, and unless i MU diesels they have trouble with it to.
Hey Andre to me it seems really smooth, i used one of the woodland scenics inclines, so it is really nice, well built and i don’t see or feel any kind of humb or dip at all.
Steamers have more of a problem with grades than diesels, even the prototype engines did.
Dave H.
Is it a tight curve? It is possible that your curve is effectively doubling your grade…
David B
Are you saying that your locos won’t pull X number of cars up the grade or they won’t even climb it by themselves?
Try that raising one end up thing a bit. Might have trouble with cars rolling on sidings, but it might help figure out how to fix the problem.
2% is actually pretty steep for the prototype. I know riding the old Erie Mining 2% grade down to the ore dock felt like you were in free fall it was so steep!! On my old layout I had a 2% grade as part of my ore dock approach, I found an engine that could move 25+ cars on level track could only do about 10 up the grade…seems to me John Armstrong or someone wrote that a 2% grade can cut an engine’s pulling ability to about 40% of normal, that would match what I found.
BTW that’s one reason my new ‘under construction’ layout is a double deck layout with no helix or connection between the two, for the room the helix takes up it wouldn’t be worth it, given the problems the ensuing grade would cause.
Hey David I am useing B-Mann e-z track in 11 3/4 inch radius curve, what i have is a long straight stretch of track, 2 sections of the curved track, a short stretch of straight track, then 2 more sections of the curved, the grade starts and ends at the joint between the curve and straight sections, the track configuration is a round cornered rectangle i guess, and i had heard that haveing a grade on a curve would make things worse, so thats way i put in the straight sections, thought it would help out.
Those curves are moderately sharp for N scale, I believe 15-18" radius would be considered ‘broad’ curves.
If the grade is cosmetic - that is, if you’re just doing it to add visual interest to the layout, it isn’t part of an over-and-under situation - I’d try lessening the grade. In N scale 1/4"-1/2" elevation difference between two parallel tracks is going to make a big difference, and that would allow you to cut your grade to 1% or less.
Otherwise you could stay at 2% but make it go up a lesser amount…what I mean is, on my last (HO) layout, I mentioned before that engines struggled pushing ore cars up the long 2% grade to the ore dock. But on the mainline I had a cosmetic 2% grade that raised the track 1/2" on the inside loop of essentially a big twice-around. Since only a portion of a long ore train was on the grade at one time, it didn’t seem to have a noticeable affect on pulling performance. My BLI 2-10-4 that could pull 30 cars on flat track would pull 30 cars up the short 2% grade. It was a curving line too but 28" radius.
Do you use graphite for anything on your models? If so it may have found it’s way onto the rails. This would make it hard for your locos to climb even a 1% grade.
Hey Loathar, for the most part the locos can handle it by them selves, it’s when you start adding cars that causes trouble, the other night i was running 4 50 foot ice bunker reefers and 2 40 ft box cars and a caboose and one of my newer atlas diesel locos started spinning its wheels near the top, the other one would do it but it seemed like it was really straining to make it, now the one seems like maybe if i could add some weight to it that would help, i guess i am just worried that this is going to age them to fast, wear them out if you know what i mean, i am not into ops right now, i think i would be called a railfan type operator?, i have three seperate tracks on my layout and what i do is about 8-9 pm i uncover the layout and start 1-2 of the trains, run it for 30-45 min. then switch trains, kind of rotate between them so to speak, and i usually go to bed around 12-1 am, and at around 10 my wife and i go downstairs for about 30-45 min. so at that time all is off, does this sound like to much use?, am i wearing the little guys out running to much? this is one of my frustrations with this hobby, with my car i know that every 3-5 thousand miles i should change the oil, and tires last about this many miles ect. but in all the reading both on here and the books i have i don’t think i have seen anything like that for trains.
As far as i know nothing has graphite in it, i use grease on the gears and oil on the bearings, and everything i have is labeled for trains and comes from the hobby shops, i do not know enough to mess around so i wanted to get the approved stuff, also i clean my track and wheels every 2-3 weeks. And as a side note has any one heard from SpaceMouse lately?, have not seen him post for a while now and am wondering if all is well.
Sounds like your problem is at the top of the grade, and if you are using easytrack instead of flex you will have problems with the transition between grade and flat, maybe you can modify a piece of track for this transition, (to imagine what your engine is seeing, envision a 45% slope to straight, that is what your n scale is seeing even though it is only 2%). Also there is probably a problem at the start of the grade but your engines will not notice that as much.
Every time another car starts up the grade it makes the train heavier from the loco’s perspective, that’s the reason the trouble is at the top of the grade. The first place I’d look is to make sure the layout is level. If there is an upward tilt to the layout of as little as 1/4 inch your grade becomes more like 3%. BTW, since your grade includes a curve check that it’s level both ways (front to back and side to side).
Make sure the wheels on your rolling stock spinn freely. You could use your grade to see how easily they roll - set each one on the track at the top and let it coast. You may find that some cars are going up the hill with their “brakes” on.
I get nervous about adding weight to locos. The harder those little motors work the quicker the bearings heat up and wear. Yes, the mechanisms in locos do wear out, and extra weight will certainly influence the life span of those little parts.