Why were/are F40s required to run in notch 8 to provide HEP. They weren’t always in notch 8 when pulling trains so what happens then?
The engine was required to run at Notch 8 to allow the HEP alternator to provide enough power for the train. When in HEP mode, the throttle only controls output from the main alternator. When F40’s were operated in multiple, only the trailing unit was in HEP mode.
The HEP gen was gear driven off the front of the diesel engine. In order to make 60 Hz, the diesel engine had to turn at 896 RPM - which is notch 8 engine speed. So, even when the throttle is in idle and the train is stopped, the diesel engine was still turing at 896 RPM, but there was no load on the main generator - no excitation provided by the control system. When the engineer notches out, the main generator is excited and power to move the train is generated.
F40PHs could operate in “freight” mode with the HEP turned off and would have 8 distinct engine speeds, one for each notch. They could also operate in “standby” mode where HEP power came off the main generator with the engine running notch 6 speed (and the traction motors not being powered)
I rode the Broadway one night where the 2nd unit died climbing the Horseshoe curve. The lights and heat went out. Then the 1st unit stalled right in the curve. The came and fetched us with a couple of ancient Conrail SD40 helpers, towed us back to Altoona, ran around the train and took us to Chicago - all the way at 65 mph. A minor miracle considering the condition of those SD40s at the time. They had the former lead F40PH running in standby mode to provide the HEP.
Im not sure I understand this. Does this mean you always need two F40s in a consist, one for HEP and one for motive power? If you can run a solo F40, and it’s always in notch 8, how do you control the speed and pulling power of the lone F40?
No.
The F40 isn’t always in Notch 8-- its engine is running at Notch 8 speed when providing HEP, but it’s comparable to running your car’s engine at 4000 rpm with the gearshift in neutral. If no excitation current is going to the AR10 it just spins freely, absorbing no power from the prime mover; the engine’s control system provides enough excitation current to get the pulling power corresponding to the throttle notch.
So when supplying HEP, are you saying they basicly idle at the notch 8 rpm setting?
Correct and sucking down the fuel at 200 Gallons per HOUR. With the F40PH only holding 1800 gallons providing HEP they need to be refueled every 9 hours or less. Why do you think one of the requirements of the P40 Design was lower fuel usage while providing HEP. They do it in Notch 6 and only using 140 gallons an Hour and holding 2200 Gallons they can go 15 hours before requiring refueling.
It doesn’t, of course. If it’s “idling” at 896 RPM and supplying no HEP or traction power, it burns … what’s it supposed to be, around 25 gal/hr?
Caltrain still has a couple of old-style F40s (not converted with a separate engine for HEP) so somebody hopefully has a clue what the correct figure is.
Those Fuel tanks look pretty big to me. Unlike the Genesis the F40PH wasn’t a “seamless” car body so you could easily get at and replace parts.
As you can see it dosen’t take much to derail a Genesis
1800 gallons looks big?
2200 gallons on the P42. 400 more gallons extends range by at least two hours, which is quite a big difference.
Try turning wrenches on an F40. Then tell me it’s easier to get at things than on a P42. All carbody type locomotives have poor maintenance access to the prime mover and equipment rack.
I applaud your determination and persistence.
RWM
From the manueal
"
NORMAL -
Intended for normal passenger service. Engine operates at full speed (893 RPM); AC power supplied to trainlined power connectors by Head End Generator; throttle varies AR 10 excitation for traction motor control. (the F40PH is pulling your train and provideing HEP)
STANDBY -
Intended for short term stopover in passenger service such as loading-unloading, scheduling anticipations or delays, or to prepare the passenger section (heating or air conditioning) prior ‘to passenger boarding. Engine operates at standby speed (720 RPM); trainlined power connectors supplied AC by AR 10 main generator; no power to traction motors; no throttle response. (The F40PH is only provideing HEP)
ISOLATE -
Intended for operation without auxiliary AC power. No AC power to trainlined power connectors; engine - speed varies with throttle position as with a conventional freight locomotive. Normal idle speed of 410 RPM. (F40PH is only pulling no HEP)"
Amtrak liked to have one locomotive in the consist soley for HEP on bigger trains.
Look at the tanks again they are bigger then 1800 looks to be more like 2500 to 3000
Those CSX units have had larger fuel tanks added 2600 Gallons I believe. They are not “stock.”
Here’s a Stock Fuel tank
I know thoes aren’t stock. The fact is it was easy to fix the fule tank problem.
http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=79057
I think in my opinion F59PHI is a better locomotive than both of them junk.[soapbox] It’s a better stable and more for the $$$. [oX)]
Ham have you EVER PULLED a wrench in your life or worked with steel before. In order to modify those units first you have to remove all the batteries and placethem somewere else in the unit then build a new fuel tank and then mount it to the unit. Word to the wise making a fuel tank is not easy. You have to make sure there are NO LEAKS OF ANY KIND and bending 1/2 inch thick steel is not easy. Then you have to remove the old one and mount the new one in place plumb the intake and return and the fillers plus make sure all the air lines tanks do not need to be moved.
Ham is a kid who volunteers at a Trolley Museum (and can’t understand why an F40 doesn’t fit the collection plan) and likes Amtrak F40PHs (Amtrak ones, not the Via, not the Metra, the AMTRAK), anime, and based on his YouTube creations, has way to much time on his hands.
I especially like the picture of the derailed P42. Oh my God, that Genesis derailed after it hit a log truck, what crap they must be!
Except the fact that they are overweight.
I checked and the tanks on CSX’s F40s are 2520 gallons.
Considering a LOG truck will derail just about anything out there nothing to laugh at. Remember that cargo is solid also and can get under the wheels and lift them if it is HARDWOOD also then you are in a world of hurt.