Hi Folks
I was down in Toronto over the week end and one of the hobby shop guys had said something to me I thought kinda strange .He had commented that it is better to use the peco electra frogs compared to the peco insulfrogs because over time the points would get dirty and what would happen is the sound in the dcc decoder equiped locomotive would cut out as it went over the insul frogs because of the bad point contact,Where as the electra frog peco would never give this problem.
1 So have any of use that have had insul frog pecos ever came across this problem.
2 If this is a problem that happens down the road is there a way to over come this perhaps by running power wires to the frog?
3 What is the purpose for making an insul frog compared to a electra frog why not just make one or the other?
TY
Lynn
Insulfrogs are tough as the degree of diversion of the frog gets longer. In other words, as the turnout # rises, the frog becomes longer, and the smaller, less pickup appointed locos may run out of both feeds as they cross over the longer frogs. Also, as the angle becomes shallower on the longer turnouts, there is more chance that a given wheel may make contact with both polarities at the frog point in a non-insulated frog. So, some people feel that they get better results by soldering a wire between the points rails and the frog, using a DPDT or switch machine to control the power to the frog to maintain correct polarity.
If the point rail gets dirty, bent, corroded, eroded, name it, and fails to make electrical contact with its stock rail, then the frog goes unpowered…YET, this is only when the frog is hooked up to the stock rail in the first place. If it is insulated, then contact between the stock rail and the points is irrelevant…because the frog is “insulated”, so what about the points can be germane? Buddy is out to lunch.
I use unmodified Peco insulfrog code 100’s on my layout. I have had the experience of the place where the point rail contacts the stock rail getting dirty and inhibiting current flow (When the diverging route is set) this has happened most often after painting and then ballasting the track. Usually because of some of the white glue seeping where it should not. A quick clean with a fine file and all is OK. so yes I have had the problem, but it is not hard to correct.
With newer locos with all-wheel electrical pick-up,using either Insulfrog or Electrofrog TO’s doesn’t make much difference if any.However,running very short locos or older designs which feature single truck power feed for instance may call for E type TO’s.
We have many of both types on the club’s layout and since none of the E type have been supplied separate power feed to the frog,they all rely on cleanliness for reliable operation.Most problems that occasionally come up get resolved by cleaning the track contact points.
We have nearly 50 Peco code 100 Insulfrog turnouts on our HO scale club layout, including double slips, and have had no problems with them except dirt sometimes getting between the outer and point rails and causing a loss of electrical continuity – something that is easily corrected with a little cleaning. Atlas turnouts have been much more problematic.
Probably true, but how dirty is the layout room and what is “over time”? Anything could happen if “over time” is 100 years?
Not yet, but at the club we have been having the opposite problem. The insulation between the rails in the point is so narrow that any metal wheel set that is even a 1/64" too wide in gauge will short between them. We’ve been painting over them with nail polish making them “more” insulfrogish.
Umm how about cleaning them? I can’t imagine that any layout (unless it is outdoors) could get dirty enough that this would occur more than once every five years or so. Yes it could be fixed with additional wiring but if one is going to go to the effort of more wiring, why not go with the electro frog in the first place (see answer to #3 below)?
Ease of installation and wiring. It is so nice to slap the insulfrog turnout in without having to worry about gaps in the rails and feeder wires to the point and tracks beyond the turnout.
I have run into that problem with insulfrogs–part of the electrical contact comes from these little tabs beneath the rail itself, and when those tabs get dirty the switch doesn’t conduct power worth a darn. The only solution I have come up with is adding more feeder wires, which kind of defeats the purpose of using Electrofrogs. My layout room is pretty dusty (unsealed garage) which may be part of the problem, but it is an issue. The only solution I have found is dousing the rails with track cleaning fluid, which is temporary at best because the cleaning fluid leaves a residue that I’m pretty sure is non-conductive…the fluid I use is the blue Life-Like stuff, is there anything better?