Am slowly replacing my Atlas turnouts with hand made Fast Track ones and so far I love the smoothness of the movement of the cars over them and general overall lack of issues - at least once I get them closing properly.
One problem I am encountering is not getting the closure rails to seat fully into the switch points. I am trying to be conscientious in getting the right amount of curvatureon the divergent rail and in filing everything down to attain a nice smooth fit. But having a good fit really isn’t the issue as much as the throwbar not moving the closure rails all the way over to get a snug fit to the stock rails. I can usually get a good tight fit on one side but typically not on the other.
I am using Tortoise switches to run the turnouts and have switched to the heavier wire as recommended by Fast tracks. I am also careful about the hole through which the wire from the Tortoise is not interfering in anyway which might cause interference with wire and hence operation. Also, the roadbed under the throw bar has been cleaned away in order to not cause any sticking.
I have looked for solder issues, Perma Bond residue, or any other possible small items that might also conribute to the problem.
Wondering if any of the rest of you who are making and using these turnouts have located specific issues which may have caused your turnouts to do the same thing or if you have developed any tips for making the throwbar to move the rails more easily and completely from one stock rail to the other. I will add that with some fussy and adjusting I can generally get things to work as they should but I am just wondering if there is anything I am overlooking when building or installing that might be avoided in the first place.
I use slightly older Walthers:-Shinohara turnouts mounted on a two- inch pink foam subroadbed and a piece of Woodland Scenics foam roadbed. This gives me a fairly long 2 1/4 inches from top to bottom. I glue a thin plywood square beneath the turnout and mount the Tortoise to that. I do use a slightly longer and thicker wire.
For a while, I had the same problems as you. Mostly, it was just a learning curve to line up the turnout, the holes through the various levels and the Tortoise itself. Now, I generally make the holes a bit oversized to give me the wiggle room I need.
I adjust the position of the pivot on the Tortoise to make sure I have plenty of side-to-side motion of the wire, even if it’s not perfectly centered.
Yeah, I tend to ream out the hole for the wire enough that the wire isn’t bumping into the side of of the hole and thereby obstructing the wire’s arc. Guess I may just have to play with each one until I get the type of closing action on each side that I need.
Was hoping someone would reply with a,“Yeah, I also had that issue and easily fixed it by…”.
Get some powdered teflon (Labelle #134 or equivalent) and spray it at the point where the throwbar goes under the stock rails. Sometimes that will make the points move easier, and teflon isn’t conductive.
As far as building fast track turnouts, some people have had issues because they were not perfectly flat when soldering, another is sometimes a bit of solder creaps under the switch point rails and people just don’t notice it.
And that is exactly why everything I make or scratch build is done on the glass table. Glass don’t lie is why it’s my workbench. It ain’t like I do slices on the glass as I have my hobby mat right next to what I’m working on and my hobby swivel chair on wheels. So my back don’t get tired from twisting or leaning over.
Glue, paint, and whatever scrape right off the glass just fine with a razor blade when you’re done. Good as new.
That’s a result of simply not paying close enough attention when working. The jigs are very flat. Debris in the tie or rail grooves are a problem if enough care isn’t taken during construction.
All my turnouts are Fast Track purchased from a custom builder. I carefully spiked them down and replaced the Tortoise motor actuator wires with 1/32" music wire. Those that remained sticky I burnished and worked-in with lube powder the throw-bar to rail contact area and tie tops wherever the point rails slide across them. The Molykote Z powder I had on hand worked good, though might be electrically conductive? Can’t say the burnishing wasn’t tedious, but the turnouts have been operating well for nearly a decade now, knock on wood, I really like em’ and have gotten used to the burnishing marks.
TF, I too like doing some modeling work on glass, I’ve a few different sizes of 1/4" thick sheet glass that a local window shop cut and dressed for me.
Thanks for the replies everyone. Several good thoughts to consider about taking extra care during construction - and possible solutions. Having debris in the channels of the jig can definately be an issue. I carefully clean them out after every turnout.
I can see the point of using glass to have a flat hard surface to work on but since the Fast Track turnouts are constructed in a metal jig, about the only use for the glass in this instance would be in checking the flatness of the turnouts once they are removed from the jig. Is that what was being suggested?
I like the idea of the teflon under the tie. Thought about several ways to lube that area but didn’t want something that would attract dirt or cause conduction issues.
Dan, as I go, having made FT turnouts using jigs and free-styling customized ones where I need them to close a loop, I have learned that you can get away with a suprisingly tight gap between the points and the stock rails. Did you mean stock rail, and not closure rail meeting the points? Unless we’re talking about a #4-4.5, the rails should bend without any ‘meeting’, ‘joints’, or hinging. They can be solid points rails which only become closure rails as they approach the frog if one must change their names.
I have learned that, due to all sorts of variables that impact the final product that you want to insert into your tracks, you must sometimes use a bit more solder and lift one or both points so that their top bearing surfaces meet those of the stock rails. This larger blob may jam up into the stock rail recess, as you can surely imagine, and it will keep the point out from the stock rail. Don’t be afraid to file that blob judiciously to improve the point’s lie. Also, you don’t have to solder the points more than about 2mm from the stock rails in their ‘open’ position. Try it.
The standard Atlas, Peco, and Walthers varieties, to reduce the probability of problems, mount their points about 4 mm out on the throwbar. It’s unnecessary if all of your wheels are
The issue I am having is having the filed points of the two closure rails (straight and diverging) meeting snug up against the stock rails.
I feel pretty good about my filing of the recess on the stock rails but as with anything, it’s possible that on a few of the turnouts where I am experiencing issues it might not have been done perfectly. Same with soldering the closure rails upright. I try to be conscientious about that but guess it’s possible some may have inadvertantly gotten turned a tad. Both are things to consider and look for.
I like your thought on how the closure rails may be soldered too close together. I have been soldering one of the closure rails right up against the stock rail with a slip of paper between the closure rail and stock rail and with the second closure rail I have been inserting a piece of the PC board tie on edge as a spacer between the stock rail and CR as per directions in the Fast Track Builders’ Guide. I may try making that gap a little less on future turnouts or even redo a few where getting a snug closing fit seems to be less than ideal.
I have some super fine teflon powder coming Wednesday - which may also help make a difference.
Dan, we may have a difference of terminology here. The closure rails are the two rails that flare at the frog and form the guards. The two rails that form the V at the frog are the frog rails. The points rails can be hinged to the closure rails, and often are on commercial turnouts. I think you mean that the points, the part that adheres to the throwbar, is where you are having trouble…?
A slip of paper is fine between the ‘closed point’ and its stock mate, but you must ensure that the opposite point is still about 2mm away from its stock mate. The throwbar must be able to swing enough to take each point about 2-3 mm away from the stock rails on either side.
When I solder points to a PCB tie/throwbar, I push the throwbar to one side fully, and then solder the point on the other side, but careful to keep it at about 2-3 mm away from that stock rail. Next, shove and retain the throwbar the other way, ensuring the just-soldered point is tight up to the stock rail over there, and then repeat…2-3mm away, and careful to get the bearing surfaces matched. Then, verify with a toothpick in the small hole in the throwbar and shove the points back and forth to ensure they have good flange spacing.
I handlay switches and use PC board throwbars, but not Fastracks jigs. I also put a piece of paper under the stock rail, above the throwbar and up between the point and the stock rail. I don’t use hinged points, so I center the throwbar and points using a piece of stripwood between the stock rail and each point, then solder the points the the throwbar.
The piece of paper provides a bit of clearance so the throwbar doesn’t drag on the bottom of the stock rail, and centering the points makes the bend/flex in the rail even between both positions and evens/minimizes the stress on the solder joint between the throwbar and the point. Just my preference, soldering full over works too.
That is pretty much my process as well. The piece of paper I referred to is only used when soldering the one point right up next to the stock rail and is just temporarily placed there to keep solder away from the stock rail - at least in theory. The difference I see in your process is that you have one point next to the stock rail while soldering the opposite point to the throw bar (maintaining the 2mm gap) and then reverse the process. I will give that a try next time.
