Just as a safety concern, I’m posting a link to this accivent that occured today. At least two railroad workers were killed and an unknown nuber were injured when their on-track maintenance vehicle was struck by a commuter train. The link is here:
If the mods feel this should be placed elsewhere, then please have at it. It just goes to show that an accident can happen almost anytime, anywhere, even when folks are trying to follow the rules.
I wonder who they’re going to hang out to dry as the scapegoat. It always happens in situations like this and it’s not alway the person most directly responsible.
MoW safety is an overlooked thing when it comes to public information.
Those guys face alot of potential accidents all day long that are subject just to their line of work.It’s a very demanding and physical job.And they practice safety as a #1 priority.They are on the loud, body beating equipment for hours,while all along the trains roll by them.
And we as transportation workers watch after our fellow brothers with the upmost attention.
I pray for the deceased workers families,and those injured,it is a sad day [:(] .
As a lifelong rail worker i hate it when this sort of thing happens… wherever it happens.
I don’t think that many rail workers realise just how close the margin of safety can be… even when we adhere strictly to every rule.
I’m not saying that the situation is allowed to be dangerous… the safety factor for men working on plain, straight track is six feet though (ten feet on linespeeds over 100mph). That’s across the track. That might seem a strange comparison as the train will be going past… at up to 100mph or 125mph. That’s with what we call “Green Zone” working. There’s also “Red Zone” working which is only permitted under much more strict controls.
I guess that it’s a bit like flying… we just get used to things not going wrong more of the time than they go wrong… and that can be dangerous in itself.
Why am I rambling on?
Well… we get it wrong sometimes and it’s the most horrible feeling when you read about it - no matter where in the world it happened - I feel for all those work crews, train crew, the dispatchers, the rescue crews, passengers and neighbours.
I’ve been close to incidents. the feeling in your gut is like when your family are late arriving on a visit and you hear a plane is down or there’s been a huge smash on the freeway…
Imagine what it’s like for any family at home who have their people working on the track when the local news comes on…
I also care about Railfans.
This is what can happen to those of us that are supposed to be on the track after training and with protective measures in place.
I said back at the start that “I don’t think that many rail workers realise just how close the margin of safety can be… even when we adhere strictly to every rule”. So the next question is… “What chance do railfans have”?
Agreed here. It’s truely a tragic day for the victoms and their families. While your praying for them also give a prayer for the train crew and survivors of the work crew, they will live with this the rest of their lives. I’m still haunted from an accident 40 years ago. Ken
The workers had been under contract to the MBTA to replace rail ties. Several trains had passed their location during the day on the 2nd track as they were directed to do via conductors. Now, late in the afternoon, the train in question is on the WRONG track. The workers were on the track that they had been working on all day.
The trainspeed was 60 mph. The train was coming around a curve at 60 mph giving the work crew microseconds to jump free. Two were killed others injured including passengers.
Are accidents preventable? YES THEY ARE!! And I will argue this point with anyone. Procedures are put in place to ensure safety IF FOLLOWED and COMMUNICATED.
At this point, we don’t know where the breakdown occured, but it is a safe bet that COMMUNICATION ( lack of ) was a major player.
How about the accident on Monday in Marissa, Illinois? A 43 year old mother was driving her daughter and two friends to High School and decided that she was too much in a hurry to stop at the crossing for a CN Coal train. THREE (3) are dead, the mother , daughter and a friend. It may take a crash proof crossing gate, but accidents ARE PREVENTABLE. It is all a matter of how much we as a society of people are willing to spend, train, communicate, re-train each year.
First my deepest condolences to the families of the workers that lost their life in this tragic accident.
All to sadly death rides the rails all to often and has since the earliest years of railroading due to mistakes to include miscommunication,human error,faulty equipment and natural disasters such as foods,land slides, and other weather related problems.
There is no doubt in my mind that the DS made a mistake that killed 2 follow railroaders…That is something that man will live with till his dying day.
Hey! Please don’t jump to conclusions! These are people and their families.
I’ve been there. I had eight men under my protection nearly killed - two threw themselves between juice rails to escape being hit - It looked like it was me… until one of them siad that he had taken an action that he should never have been even thinking of. If he’d been killed everyone, including me, would have thought it was my fault and I would have lived with it.
As it is i still get the shakes…
As for blame placing… I’ve had that done to me too… different event… they said on the written record that it wasn’t me… and still took disciplinary action. They made me ill, spent £35,000 and promoted the person they stated (off the record) did it. BUT all of those “company men/women” are out of a job and I was able to leave when I chose.
That’s normal practice. Whether or not the DS made an error he/she probably isn’t in any condition to work anyway and it is good practice to relieve him/her of duty.
Whatever has gone down please pray for that DS because right now he/she will be going through a hell that I hope none of you ever get even near. It’s hell for their family and friends as well.
Without drawing any conclusions i can tell you that if negligence were suspected the probablility would be custody rather than leave.
When I trained as a Signalman (towerman/ds) we were regularly reminded that if we got the job wrong we could go down for manslaughter and even murder.
I just hope for everyone involved that the location is voice-recorded so that it doesn’t go down to “he said/she said”. A black box in the tower and on the train would help as well.
Amen to that. In the fire service, all our radio communications are recorded and time and date stamped so that if anything goes wrong it can be narrowed down to one small stretch of time. From there it’s a matter of questioning all who were there at that particular stretch of time until the responsible party is singled out.
Dave-the-Train,Any way you want to slice it it will be dispatchers error…After all the train was on the wrong tracks seeing that other trains had past this track maintenance gang.
And this says it all.
“I can say at least 10 trains had come through the work area earlier in the day without incident,” said Pesaturo. “The train should have been switched to the other track to avoid the work crew.”
Sadly human error played its part in this tragic accident.Even if the switch failed to operate the DS should have seen the train was on the wrong track by looking at the CTC board.
I have to disagree… without laying blame or making conclusions in this case… because I wasn’t there…
It could be down to engineer error… he may have blown through against a signal instead of holding for the road… he may have failed to pull up after he wasn’t switched to the correct road 9if he knew he should be switched) - he may not have had time to pull up.
It could be equipment error… switch blades not moved/detected correctly… unlikely these days but it can occur.
It’s even possible that on a “hurry-up” the work crew reported themselves clear when they thought they had time to “hop off” the track but didn’t… I’ve known that happen.
There’s so many possibilities of people forgetting to send messages, thinking they did get messages… the range of things is immense. this is why voice recording is so good… someone, people with him, may be convinced that a message was sent or said one thing but the recorder may show that it wasn’t sent or it said something else.
I’ve actually stood and seen incidents (unable to stop them… that’s not nice) and what seemed to me to have gone wrong at the scene as it happened has turned out to not be what went wrong.
First I am not judging but,basing my conclusions on my railroad knowledge and past railroad experience…Secondly it is the dispatchers responsibility for all traffic and maintenance work being done in his territory…
All I am saying it will boil down to dispatcher error.That train was on the wrong track and there is NO WAY of getting around this:
“I can say at least 10 trains had come through the work area earlier in the day without incident,” said Pesaturo. “The train should have been switched to the other track to avoid the work crew.”
I don’t recall who said that the train should hae been switched to the other track or know either that person’s knowledge of the events as they actually developed or their authority to comment.
I am suggesting that it is possible that other factors than DS error led to the train not being switched. Also that it is possible that the apparent situation indicated that the train did not need to be switched or that the train should have stopped but didn’t.
It is true that a DS has the responsibility you state. However, like an airline pilot he is not and is not held responsible if, for example, a technician wires a circuit incorrectly (I’m not suggesting that this is an issue here).
We have one statement (so far) that the train was on the wrong track. It was certainly in the wrong place at the wrong time… but that is a different thing. We do not at present know for certain that the train and not the MoW vehicle was in the wrong place. MoW crews do switch tracks part way through a days work… sometimes they get on the wrong track… I’ve been there…
Whatever has happened no-one sits back and lets these things occur with an attitude of just not bothering. (The few that head this way get kicked out fast - I’ve seen that too … and I’ve seen physical force used to persuade people of the error of their ways).
If a CTC board indication showed the train in the wrong place that does not mean that a DS would have any time at all to do anything about it. That is a really awful experience… all you can do is pray.
Okay. This is my last comment here. When I drive I sometimes make stupid mistakes. When I leave home I sometimes think “Did I lock the door”? When I’m working on track I sometimes have to stop, even stop the whole job, while I make sure that I’m getting things right and that everything is safe. One of the horrible things about any &q
That is precisely why communications need to have a fool-proof feedback loop. I worked in the semiconductor manufacturing maintenance group for years. We were playing around very high voltage ion implanters (were talking 50 kv and higher here ), and diffusion furnaces that also were very dangerous…480Vac, high current. Whenever we worked on this equipment, there was a lock-out, tag-out procedure. Every technician had their own lock and key to place on the power panel so that when one tech was done, he removed his lock, but could not turn on the power if another lock by another tech was still in place while he/she still wotked on the equipment.
99% of the time the “SYSTEM” is at fault. Procedures need to be in place for dangerous jobs that have a feedback loop. If the dispatcher in this case gives the Ok to use track 1, and the maintenance crew is still on track 1, the Conductor of the train, the Engineer of the train, the work crew forman,ALL should have to communicate back to Dispatcher. If this procedure was in place, there was NO WAY this accident would have occured.