The topic of encounters between railfans photographing trains from public property and the police has been discussed at length, and most have suggested the best way to handle such encounters is to be cooperative and respectful; but, how do you handle encounters between railfans and ordinary citizens who ask you what you are doing? If the citizen is merely curious the problem goes away. But, there are some people who are busybodies, and when they see you photographing trains they ask you what you are doing in a confrontational and in an officious manner. Here I would say as little to them as possible, or ignore them altogether.
Here is a recent experience I had with an officious citizen in a suburb Southwest of Baltimore while I was photographing MARC and Amtrak trains from a street that runs parallel to the Northeast Corridor tracks. A man in a Chevy Suburban stopped, and he asked me if I was associated with Amtrak. I told him I was a railfan, photographing trains is my hobby, and I was photographing trains from public property which is perfectly legal. I asked him if he was a police officer, and he told me no, but he was going to call the cops to check me out. I told him to go ahead because I wasn’t going anywhere. With that he drove off; but, he stopped down the road, got out of his truck, waited for 10 minutes, and then he drove away. I left 10 minutes later because it had gotten cloudy, and in all that time the police still didn’t come. By the way I parked my car on a side street, but it might not have attracted his attention since I was in Maryland, and the car had Maryland tags so it looked as if it belonged where I parked it.
As I left the street that ran parallel to the Northeast Corridor tracks I noticed a vehicle with red and blue lights on the roof - a white SUV which may have been Jeep Cherokee - turned into that street, and I don’t know if it was a police vehicle or a fire and rescue vehicle, but I wasn’t going to wait around to find out. If that was the police it too
I haven’t, but coincidentally, I guess today is National Constitution day. As we think about our civil right and freedoms to pursue what makes us happy, I am thankful for the bill of rights to protect us in such situations.
Amen to that! And rather than withdraw from active photography, railfans should keep aware of the fact that the Bill of Rights challenges us to “use it or lose it”!
I don’t fear the private citizen, for I am one of them. I would fear the officious “wannabe’s”. The police get calls all the time for “suspicious persons” doing all sorts of suspicious (and not-so-suspicious) things. If Jane Q. Public calls the cops to report that someone is taking pictures of trains in broad daylight, they’ll probably stop by and have a chat with us and go their merry way. They probably didn’t see it as at threat - but they have to placate the complainant, who may still be watching.
We’ve already discussed the well-meaning, but mis-informed police officer…
On the other hand, Mr. Wannabe might just get pushy with his interpretation of suspicious activity. Pointing out that he’s wrong may well risk physical harm, since he’s not likely to arrest you and haul you to the police station, and may have had his interpretations of suspicious activities fortified by certain forms of liquid refreshments.
The problem is that complying with his demands simply encourages him…
Let me add some data from my own experience. I have activly photographed trains since 1960. I would estimate I have made something on the order of 300 photo trips lasting one day to three weeks. In all of those years I have only come across one “civilian” who challenged my taking photographs. However, I should point out I am very careful about safety and never ventured into large facilities on a railroad I was not working for at the time.
While I have never been hassled by the police (either city of railroad) or private citizens for that matter, I have so say honestly that while there are jerks like guy who hassled you I would much rather have citizens in general watching closely for trouble than not watch at all…with that said I guess we all will need to put up with some hassles in order to prevent TROUBLE
If the police and citizens are nice and just checkin’ things out I agree[8D]. It’s when they get snotty [}:)] that I have a problem. (I’m sure most of you could have figured this one out on your own![(-D][swg])
You know, there’s something nice about living out west. I really think there are a lot of the things that more urban, “eastern” places are a lot more up tight than anything out west here. Maybe I’m seeing this wrong, but I’ve never been harassed by a cop or a citizen. There have been a couple citizens that are curious about my hobby (especially when I’m out in snowy/rainy/etc. weather, but no one that has felt it a threat to the public good.
I wish all of you back east the best of luck with your local law and wannabe citizens.
Police in Colorado, Wyoming, and New Mexico have pulled me over for having out of state plates. Each time I asked them why and that was the reason they gave.
Private citizens are supposed to report suspicious activity. That’s always been true but they cross the line when they deputize themselves.
A couple of times the police (one time even the railroad police) pulled up and we had a friendly chat, and then they went on their way. So far no one living in the towns has asked me a bunch of weird questions, or even commented on what I was doing. But if someone ever does come around and ask me what I’m doing I’ll just answer their questions and hopfully they’ll go on after that. I can understand someone’s concern though, especially if you’re out photographing trains on a high-speed line, which is where I usually go. That would be one of the places terrorists would be more likely to strike.
I was grilled by a CSX employee on a public street in Buffalo,NY. He then called the CSX police, who were busy elsewhere. Then he called 911 and the Buffalo PD sent three units, one angry cop wanted to put me in jail because he wanted me to call CSX emergency phone number for permission to be on a public street! Had I done so, under New York law, I would be exposed to charges of using an emergency phone number for ordinary business. I avoided the area for a while, and urged others to do likewise. There are legal sites that state that one may observe trains from public streets. This “right” is under attack by disgruntled employees and vigilantes with nothing better to do. As for the CSX police: they refused to press charges much to the VERY ill-disguised and un professional attitude, of a bad apple Buffalo officer. Other CSX employees were apologetic, but the damage has been done. I am too well off to get a lawyer for free, and not well enough off in time or money to press the issue. If I possessed either, the Buffalo PD and the city would be fighting a very nasty suit for false arrest. I neglected to get the license plate number of the angry CSX employee, otherwise I’d have sued him, too! Bridges over rail lines are off limits to fans in New York. Beware! The terrorists are winning with allies like these “people”.
The bill of rights is under assault like never before, with the exceptions of the Civil War, WWI and WWII. NEVER assume your rights will be respected-EVER! It is up to all of us to cover our backs, espically now.
Cops have to respond to calls from private citizens. We get lots of whacko calls. Around here, there is a group of folks who live out in the wilder part of my county, which happens to contain an Army drop zone. I can tell when the latest Airborne class from Fort Benning is being dropped… there’s a rash of UFO calls. We have to go out and answer them.
Just last week the city PD in my county answered a call from a private citizen about a transient wandering down the Norfolk Southern mainline. Sure enough, they went out and made an arrest on a 40 something female for criminal trespassing charges. Upon arrival at our county Hilton she claimed that she had been sideswiped by an NS freight. She got checked out by the nurse on duty… got a hot shower, a bunk for the evening, a meal, and a court appearance the next day.
Private citizens call in on a lot of incidents cops don’t see first hand. I personally have had the embarrassing experience of trying to take a photo of an NS freight crossing the Chattahoochee river into Alabama where a private citizen called the cops on me. I happened to know the cop who showed up- he is aware of my “vice” and let me be (it’s called professional courtesy). He still had to go talk to the homeowner who really really wanted to know why that man was taking pictures of the railroad.
Most real railfans are cooperative and don’t hesitate to explain what they are doing there. Most cops have much better things to do than hassle ordinary citizens doing their thing. Still, when a call comes in from a private citizen- officious, snotty wannabe that they may be- it’s the duty of a cop to find out what’s going on.
There are no doubt some folks reading this forum who have gotton a visit from the local cops right in their own homes for noise complaints on parties running late. Those calls are initiated by private citizens.
Heh. It is quiet living here in the south and there are ALOT of people who does not have a problem with trains. But once in a while the camcorder comes out when no one is around and I get a good shot.
I recall taking pictures out west of trains from the shoulder of the interstate on the catwalk of my rig. The crews always had a wave or a toot for me. Not so in the east. Harpers Ferry is one of my favortie places for shooting trains when I lived in that area. Kinda hard to chase people in a National Park that happened to have a main running next to it.
Fear me- I am an American citizen and will photograph any train, at any time, under any circumstances without trespassing on private proprty and will defend my rights as a railfan under my constitutional rights to no end.
Take away my rights and I will circumvent them as I see fit.
G’day, Y’all,
Someone brought out a good point about the concerned citizens who want to know who you are. They can be under the influence of john Barleycorn and less than perfectly reasonable. You need to be polite, use body language which makes you seem friendly and non confrontational lest you get into a fight. Modern, lightweight plastic cameras don’t make good weapons. Don’t cross your arms and stand with feet apart and on the same plane. Don’t hold your head back and look “down” at your concerned citizen. But try to get your eyes on the same level as his. Smile.
A drunk punching you out doesn’t care about the Bill of Rights… He’s just having a good time “protecting” America.
Jock Ellis
Cumming, GA US of A
I wonder how some of the US law officers would cope with european railway photographers. We are everywhere; UK, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Scandinavia etc. etc.
The general rule is that areas of public access is OK but private land is not. In the UK, trespass on private land is a civil offence (you will not get a criminal record) but trespass on any railway land IS a criminal offence. You can also be charged with other crimes including “endangering railway safety”. The Briti***ransport Police are not that worried about photographers, they have other, more important, matters to deal with such as vandalism and real railway safety.
As a railway signalling designer, my work takes me on site to photograph and survey equipment. In all the years I have been doing this I have never been stopped by the BTP to ask why I am taking pictures. The civilian police sometimes take an interest in people near railway lines but they have no authority on railways and they could also be charged with trespass if they enter railway land without permission.
Kevin UK
