Anyone else fed up of waiting for advanced reservations that don’t turn up?
I have an Atlas U30B in Burlington Northern on back order. It was due May 2011 – still no sign of it. Got fed up waiting and now bought a SD45 instead. If/when it does turn up I will have to sell it probably at a loss. I also have a Proto 2000 GP60 on back order due Feb 2012. No sign of this one either.
Although I have not paid for them yet it is annoying as you don’t know if and when they will turn up and then you will have to find the cash to pay for them.
I realise manufacturers want to know if a product will sell before making them but why the missed delivery dates? If they are not going to make a model let the customers know so we can make alternative arrangements.
One of the on-line stores I used to like because all the stuff listed was in stock now seems to only sell advanced reservations that don’t turn up. Very frustrating.
It’s been years since BLI announced the “modernizied” ATSF 2-10-2, and its arrival date has been moved back a number of times, with the latest being in 2013. BLI has this happen fairly often, but they aren’t the only mfgs that have this situation.
I’m aware of the various problems that mfgs can run into that will delay announced products, and realize some are outside their control. But they need (IMHO) to communicate that to the buying public. In example, if the production run was junk, tell us. Or if the container got damaged in transit, tell us.
That being said, I tend to think a more usual problem is the mfgs “collecting” orders before starting actual production to assure they “make enough”. As a former business analyst, I understand this stratedgy. But if they are in fact doing this, please make the buying public aware that they are “accepting orders”.
I haven’t had to wait for anything yet because I don’t like the whole advanced reservation thing and will probably never feed into it. It really is the most dissapointing aspect of this hobby that I’ve come across since picking it back up a few years ago.
How often are the “expected delivery dates” met? I would have thought it to be 100%, with the idea being that the demand would be so great that I had to reserve mine before they were all sold out. But sometimes it seems that they want to see what the interest is in a new product before investing in it?
The Athearn Genesis Monon F3 is another example. Every month, Athearn moves the delivery date back another month. It is now long past the originally promised delivery date.
Of course, everything is manufactured in China nowadays, and I suspect that is at the heart of the problem. The solution is to move manufacturing back to the good ole USA, but that is the topic of another thread.
What concerns me is WHAT are any NEW modelers going to do with the BUILD TO ORDER mentality and the NUBE wants to model a railroad that the MFGs have already done and NO LONGER plan on making any new equipment.
The NUBE can not just go to the Hobby Shops and get what he wants off the shelf (like we used to do - with the old Atheren Blue Box) so they have to pay out the BUT(on e-bay) to get any equipment they want
Which causes a lot of frustration and they soon lose interest as they can NOT afford the prices and
We LOSE another modeler!
Just my thoughts - from seeing this all happening in resent years!
Unless an item is a certified limited edition made for a particular store or reason like a whole three freight cars and one loco on my railroad.
The manufactures can “some very bad words” their advanced reservations “more bad words”
As far as I am concerned its just a con job designed to rip us off for a product that they have no intention of making, it should be illegal but it isn’t.
If they are going to make it just make it they cannot even keep the new product due in X quarter of the year so there is no hope with the advanced reservations con job
Harsh words yes but its what I feel after being let down once to often and I won’t have a bar of it now.
I’ve been waiting for Rapido’s LRC locomotive to be built, actually two of them. I’ve had them on back order for what seems like years. It doesn’t bother me that I have to wait because I know that it is a very limited amount of people that want this particular loco. I waited 3 years for my Turbo Trains and was very happy to do so. Its not like there is a big market for the loco you ordered. Pre ordering is the way it is now and manufactureres only build to fill orders. When they have enough to make a profit then it will get built, until then just suck it up. Complaining isn’t going to spped up the process.
Blue Box was a very limited range of models, liveries and car/loco numbers. Indeed these were available for years at a time, but that’s because the variety was so low. If folks actually looked at model magazines from the 1960s or 1970s, it would be a good reminder of how limited the offerings were at the time. Our memories are always more golden than the reality.
There are still hundreds of different locomotive/livery combinations and thousands of combinations of cars/liveries available in stock right now on-line (including models of hundreds of prototype locos and cars that didn’t even exist in the 1960s/70s). Specific combinations of model and livery may require a wait.
And via eBay and other means, almost anything ever produced can still be found, even those hoary Blue Box locos and cars.
Limited runs make possible a much wider variety of models, liveries, and loco and car numbers. That’s what a good portion of the market wants and the manufacturers have responded.
I’m not going to argue that it’s good or bad, but I think it’s incorrect to chalk it all up to manufacturer greed or laziness.
Times are lean for the plastic MRR world, even though we are really in a golden age in terms of what is offered. I think the manufacturers are trying to stay as healthy as possible by stacking runs in order of what seems to draw the surest sales. For BLI, they haven’t gotten many subscriptions for the 4-12-2 and the 2-10-2, but people have been sufficiently interested to have three runs of the I1, at least two of the centipedes, and they still seem intent upon a delivery of this Aug for their second batch of Paragon PRR M1a’s. For the sake of liquidity, they have to keep a fluid stack of orders so that they can both keep their ‘client’ factories interested, and keep interested buyers pulling stock off the shelves. Or, in the case of pre-orders, firm sufficiently large runs means that one gets placed near the top of the run stack.
Yes, the wait for me for the 4-12-2 is getting long, but not anywhere near where I will break down and order one of the MTH models. Nope, not gonna do that…
I’ve been waiting over four years for the BLI Reading Pacific. looks like i may wait four more. The price had increased almost 25% since I first put in my order. I could cancel my order but now I’ll wait them out.
Working as a planner and scheduler for a major EPC firm (Engineering, Project Management, Construction) gives me a little bit different perspective. And paying attention to what the importers (they are not manufacturers) say when they do release information gives other clues - thanks Rapido, Blackstone, and Atlas.
Most companies realize schedule slips cost money - to everybody, company and customer. So I find it hard to believe that importers don’t care about schedule slips. But unless your company pays attention to risk management, the real cost of a schedule slip is not well understood.
When the few Chinese companies set out to dominate model and toy train manufacturing, they took care to avoid having their business being lost to other countries in the way the US lost it to the Chinese. It’s not that the Chinese production costs are that much lower; it’s that they found ways to reduce the cost of very expensive tooling. The Chinese model train manufacturing model depended on delivering very accurate (to customer’s specs) and finely detailed tooling using computer assistance at rates far below the going US rates. The Chinese also apparently made many deals to “rent” the tooling if they got the production contract, which was a great deal for under-capitalized importers.
But Chinese inflation and labor issues have caused major supply chain disruptions on the Chinese end - something Atlas has made quite clear. With the contractual lock-ins, the importer is at the mercy of his Chinese manufacturer(s) for schedule. The schedule slips have gotten so bad that some of the importers are paying the price to find and establish new manufacturers. Atlas has publicly stated this as the reason for their delivery slips this year.
Don’t kid yourself - the end result will be higher prices for plastic models. Whether or not the current importer /Chinese manufacturer business model can survive for another decade is an interesting q
Atlas web site has as much if not more information than most manufacturers as far as shpping information. Even weekly “what’s on the container” reports! I guess no one wants U30B’s, that’s the only older announcement that is still TDB on ship date. Atlas has usually been very good about delivery dates, since there isn’t one set, well, then they haven’t even put them in the pipeline to even make it. Insufficient orders would be my guess.
Reading Pacific from BLI? Where? I see no mention of a G1, G2, or G3 on their web site. Oh, they are slapping a RDG on the USRA Light Pacific. Well, I suppose if you aren’t into exact models and a stand-in will do.
Sheldon loves to disagree, but you simply cannt produce an accurate detailed loco in mass quantities or on a continuous basis these days. It costs too much, even with cheap CHinese labor, and the people paying for the nicer models do not want generic. Batch mode production worked back in the day for Athearn, when they simply made a million of each model and slapped different road names on them. BLI tried the “just make lots, if you build it, they will buy” strategy to their near compelte demise. Just make them does not work - and it’s NOT limited to BLI and perhaps incompetent managment. The last coupel of emails I’ve gotten from Factory Direct are huge closeouts (60% or more off!) on ATHEARN locos. Not to mention all the Bachmann and other brands at the closeout kings, Trainworld. And forget the LHS, no one has the money any more to foot the flooring costs of a stock of limited production models. Best you can really do with a good shop is make the reservation, and if you get a dud, exchange it.
Or… stop being so impatient and “I gotta have this now”. Wait - EVERY one of these “limited production” models always seems to come up on eBay a few months after it’s released. Wait some more and they are back again at an even lower price. Did I pay $300 for an Atlas Tr
I did the pre order thingy twice. Once I waited and eventually cancelled.
The second time I preodered I learned why I will never do it again, but for a different reason.
When I ordered the 4 passenger cars that October, I had the money. But, intervening bills came along and, by the time the 4 passenger cars came in the following June, I hadn’t the money! SO I charged them. I had several other bills come along too. I think I might still be paying for those stupid 4 passenger cars!
What gets me is that they can revamp a whole auto assembly line and build a new completely different model in a short few months, why can’t they manufacturer a train from concept to production in as short a time? Didn’t they set up dies and parts manufacturing stuff to build a prototype for us to ooh and aah over and place a future order on? or are they computer generated images they HOPE to build once there is “enough orders to make it profitable”??
I don’t think they will get the hint that enough is enough until the preorders stop all together as we are tired of waiting 2 years or so for a model and only buy what is actaully currently available.