Hello all, my question is how many feed wires can I have going to my layout on my NON BLOCKED rail? Thank you for your information. I am having a serious problem getting my train to run through all my different blocks.[%-)]
??? I think you need to restate the question. How can you be having problems getting the train to run through “all” the different blocks if the layout is NON-BLOCKED.???
In general an answer would be that a track would need at least 1 feeder per block. That would then change to a larger number depending on the size of the block.
Thanks TEXAS ZEPHER for your input what I am tring to ask is there is one inside rail on my layout with plastic insulated rail joiners and the other rail ( on the outside of the layout ) that has metal rail joiners so the current travels all the way around the layout. My ? is how many feeders can I have going to the track with the metal joiners because I am having trouble getting my engine to move all the way around the layout and I think it has to do with my Shinohara switches witch are route selective so when I move the switch i loose power and my engine runs very slowly
The short answer is as many as you want. When I built my portable modules every bit of rail was fed. with all the years of being hauled around New England in all types of weather I never had electrical issues. On my home layout every three to six feet of rail and all the rail joiners in between feeders are soldered. Shinohara have always had connectivity problems. You either need a very good amount of pressure on the points or feed the rails after the frogs. Some people even feed the point rails too. This requires some surgery on the older ones with the rivet and solid bar between the points.
Pete
Thanks Pete at least now I know what I can do and not do but how do I know how old my switches are? I bought them on-line about 3-4 weeks ago? how old are we talkin’?
Ah, Ok I think I understand now. If I am right it is not a feeder issue. It is a short circuit issue. I am guessing the that there is some point where your track has a passing siding. When the turnouts on both sides are pointing to the same track there is no issue. However, when the turnout on one side is to the main and the turnout on the other is to the passing siding is when this happens. Right? Or there is a branch track not on the main that has an “outside” rail power feeder to it. When the turnout is thrown for that brach this situation happens.
If so I think we can figure it out eventually. A track diagram would help alot.
It is just funny that there are three threads on the forum right now concerning people dealing with the electrical issues caused by Shinohara turnouts.
In general though. If it is a feeder issue. here are potentially several problems here.
-
simply dirty track.
-
The Shinohara turnouts are not passing enough power through the points to the other side. The first thing I would try is to put a feeder just on the other side of each Shinohara turnout.
-
The track is just too long for the number of feeders. Ideally I would say that every place there is a feeder for the inside rail, I would match it with one to the outside rail.
To begin with, you need one “non blocked” feeder for every blocked feeder.
How many do you have now?
Pete,
READ THE OPS second post… He has insulated rail joiners on one rail. It sounds as though he has common rail wiring and created blocks although he says he doesn’t have blocks… We don’t know if it is DC or DCC.
Frank
Running DC hard enough to figure this out without adding WHATEVER DCC IS [:P] just kidding guys I thank you all for helping me with my situation! I just got started back in the hobby and everyone here has been very helpful!!!
If you attach your transformer to one place and the train stops, it is there that you have a problem. Probably a loose rail joiner or something.
Of course, if you have a loop and the train stops, then there is another problem somewhere else down the line. Keep repairing them until you have them all fixed. (Don’t tell the cat I said that)
ROAR
Guys.
Lets get the OP confused here. It sounds like a connectivity problem and not a short. The Shinohara turnouts need insulated joiners at the two frog rails to work. It sounds like he has them there. What is required after the frogs is feeders. DC or DCC is the same either way. The older Shinohara turnouts had the two point rails soldered to a solid bar at the throw bar and when they were against on stock rail they would pick up power with little brass slivers at the pivot area. This has always been an issue with them. Those little brass slivers always got dirty and corroded and would lose power to the points. This link will help you if you wish to eliminate the joined point rails. http://www.proto87.com/making-rtr-turnouts-dcc-friendly.html It does not matter DCC or DC. If it works on one it will work on the other too.
Pete
Ha! Actually I speak truly when I say DCC is much easier than DC. I am guessing that your problem is the same regardless.
I suggest you read this article on this site by Andy Sperandoo.
Also buy a book such as this one
You are using common rail wiring, I would suggest blocking both rails as common rail wiring can cause problems.
Good luck
Paul
I’m the first to admit that electrical engineering is not my strong suit. But let me see if I can ground you a bit here. Most of is have a set of bus wires that run from our power pack (DC or DCC is irrelevant). From these wires, we run short feeders to our track as necessary. There is no limit to the number of feeders other than your willingness to poke holes in your layout. Except where insulated track requires it, one every 8-10 feet should be sufficient. In your case, though, it sounds more like you have a power routing issue with turnouts than a feeder wire problem. For a trouble shooting aid, try some of the test leads with alligator clips on them to jumper power across turnouts. This should help you quickly locate where the problems are.
Do you know if you bought DCC-friendly turnouts or not? They can be identified easily: the frogs are isolated by breaks in the rails filled with plastic (both frog rails and both the adjacent guard rails). Underneath you will see jumpers from stock rail to stock rail cut into the ties to maintain proper polarity power to the stock rails.
Otherwise, you have the older power-routing turnouts (your earlier post seems to indicate that’s what you have). There is nothing intrinsically faulty with these turnouts although with age and use, the underrail contacts at the throwbar can lose contact pressure. They can be adjusted by very carefully lifting them with something sharp and pointed (I have used a dental pick). Or, a good power connection between points and stock rails can be restored with a spring-loaded turnout control or a powered turnout control.
If your turnouts are indeed power-routing as you seemed to indicate, your loco should not run at all if it’s not on the route with power rather than run slowly.
Dante
P.S. I have both kinds of Walthers/Shinohara turnouts and run with DCC. The only thing I had to do with the power routing turnouts was to isolate the diverging frog rails (and make sure that the stock rails beyond the frog were getting power from somewhere else).