I’ve seen various posts on this forum regarding Lok Sound units. I’ve noticed that a number of modelers are curious about them (myself included).
Let’s get the feedback info centralized into one thread to help curious modelers choosing sound decoders. I’ve read that the EMD 20 cylinder sound is available from LOK sound and I have several FP45s and an SD45 that are good candidates.
So those of you that own Lok Sound units or have seen demos, please post your opinons regarding them.
[b]A. How do they compare to QSI and Soundtraxx units?
B. Are all of the sounds “Crystal Clear”?
C. For diesels, what do you think of the horns? Is more than one horn available on each decoder?
D. Have you actually “Uploaded” sounds into them? If so, is the quality good?
E. IN YOUR OPINION are they worth the $100+ price tag?
F. Are they motor control decoders as well? How is that performance? Is current draw low?
Only one I have is in my PCM T-1, steam of course. The sounds I think are just fine, but then I’m not a complete nut over this - if it sounds like s steam engine then it’s good. The whistle they loaded is questionable, but I’ve never heard a live Reading passenger whistle, and the various T-1’s in excursion service had different whistles fitted at different times anyway. They also loaded a freight whistle for those of us using them as in-service versions - and that sounds right on. Notpicking, there is a firedoor opening/coal shovelling sound that is not appropriate to a stoke-fired engine (at least, not that frequently - but you can’t reduce the frequency of that sound occuring without also reducing the frequency of the other ‘random’ sounds like air letoff and injectors), and they ‘wasted’ a sound slot by including radio chatter that is activated by F9 - obviously not appropriate for the early 50’s.
Motor control is simply amazing. Even straight out of the box it ran at speed step 1, and it literally unstoppable - hold back on the tender and the wheels jut spin. AT higher speeds the back-emf trails off - this is configurable but I haven’t messed with the default settings as of yet. Using command station consisting (which ignores the CV that allows for difference back-emf settings in consist verses standalone mode), I double-headed a pair and they did NOT fight back and forth. Definitely a high quality implementation of back-emf. It also keeps the chuffs nicely synchronized without a cam.
It also has the playable whistle feature, although it only controls volume, not pitch. But that’s not documented in the ESU manual anywhere.
Overall, I’d say Tsunami will have potentially better sound quality, but not as good motor control. I think my Loksound T-1 sounds better than my father in law’s QSI M1a, and since the M1 is one of those with the Regulated Throttle Control disabled, the T-1s run much better. The only QSI I have with the RTC turned on is an Atlas Trainmaster, and it’s not as easy to te
I’ve heard several of them installed in diesels at the club. The prime mover sound is good, the bell sounds fantastic, the horn is almost muted at the highest volume level.
I’ll wait to hear them factory installed before I judge it.
This is a loaded question of course… [;)] While I have both Soundtraxx (including the Tsunami) and QSI and find them to be fine products, I am still more impressed by Loksound products I think. Remember there are more parts to the decoders than just the sound system. You have to take into account the motor drive circuit and speed control setups, the lighting features and sound system. While the Loksound excels in all three areas, it’s strongest concerning the motor control part. I have yet to install a different manufacturers decoder that has as smooth and consistent speed control as the ESU products do.
Again, loaded question. While the decoder is still an 8-bit version, which literally means the highest quality sound file it can play is 8-bit by 11 Khz., the quality seems to be on par with the older Soundtraxx products. The difference here seems to be the variety of sound files ESU has to choose from. Their library is still growing and yet it dwarves the library of Soundtraxx and QSI at this point (from a diesel standpoint anyway). From what I can tell from both factory recorded and my recorded files, the decoder does a great job in this regard.
From the factory the horns are a bit spotty. While some are very good, others seem muffled and the volume is erratic. I haven’t noticed this much however as you can use the programmer to pick better qualtiy horns from other files and combine them into the prime mover file you want. From the fact
I have just one so far, the same one I posted about in another thread (diesel). I like it a lot.
A. To my ear the Loksound is superior to the QSI units, although to be fair it depends on which QSI diesel you’re listening to. My Loksound is in a GP40-2 with turbo, and the closest thing I have to compare it to is an Atlas SD26. I have pretty good hearing and the SD26 produces white noise along with the sounds at a high frequency that I find irritating. I also have a BLI NW-2 and an Atlas B40-8W with QSI sound, and both of those are much less harsh and sound pretty good, but they have different prime mover sounds. The QSI dynamic brake noise on units that have them is just plain awful. It doesn’t sound like any dynamic brake that I’ve ever heard. The Loksound dynamic brakes are much closer to reality.
B. The bell is especially clear. My decoder seems to have developed a very slight distortion since it was installed, though it’s only noticeable if you really listen to it. It could be that I just didn’t notice it at first. I checked the speaker and it hasn’t come loose from the enclosure.
C. My Loksound is in a Cotton Belt unit with a Nathan 3-chime horn, which has a more mellow sound than some others anyway. At first I was a little disappointed in the volume, as it didn’t seem to be able to cut through the prime mover noise, but after fiddling with the CVs a bit, the sound level is much better.
D. No. I don’t have a computer hooked up to my layout (yet).
E. Considering that they come with a pretty good speaker and enclosure, $100 is not horrible, and they are available now. The prices on the Digitrax and Tsunami’s are more attractive, but they aren’t available yet (I know the steam Tsunami is out, but they’re still hard to get at this point). If you consider spending $200 or more for a sound-equipped engine vs. about $100 or less for a non sound engine and then adding a Loksound decoder, it works out about the same and I think they sound b
A. I have two BLI QSI diesels (E7, SD40-2) and two diesels (Kato
SD40-2 and Atlas GP40-2) with a dual 16mm 100 ohm speaker set.
I find it problematic to compare them because the speakers are so
different. The BLI’s were custom-designed to allow fitting the
largest possible speakers; they can play loud and have relatively
better low end; the 2x16 Loksound speakers sound tinny and not loud
enough.
I am reserving judgement, because the Loksounds were custom installed
and I don’t think the speaker part was done right. I will know more
after either he or I correct this. The speaker is critical.
B. Presently compare poorly to the BLI’s.
C. Not with the files that were installed, Nathan 3 chime in one and
Leslie 3 chime in the other.
Looking forward to see how the new Digitrax sound decoders will compare to the Lok Sound units. I admit though that the thought of being able to hear an actual [b] 20 cylinder EMD 645 diesel sound from LokSound, is cool indeed.
On the bright side…sound can no longer be considered a fad. It’s here to stay! [swg][tup]
Antonio, I too can’t wait to see what happens with the Digitrax release. I don’t know if you have noticed, but the QSI after market decoder is supposed to be being released in April. Look at the feature set http://www.soundsliketrains.com/wpquantumrev3a.pdf it includes several things that are not in the current QSI decoders like the ability to download and install sounds. It is a great time to be in MRR me thinks![:D]
I just did another one, this time in an Athearn Santa Fe FP45. I used the larger 28 mm speaker. It’s loud! Of course I ended up turning it way down. Other than the horn, it sounds pretty much like the other one I did before. One of these days I’ll get the programmer and download the 20 cylinder prime mover sounds.
The larger speaker definitely moves more air, and can create more volume, but I have not noticed any difference in sound quality between it and the stock 23 mm speaker. In other words, I cannot hear better bass in the larger speaker. It could be that it’s still too small to make much difference in that regard, though the overall sound quality is very good. Both of my installs used the supplied enclosures, and I used a little silicone RTV to make a good seal.
The Loksound units don’t have a capacitor that I can see, yet the sound rarely cuts out even when the headlights are flickering because the track is dirty.
I have another one to do, this time in an Athearn SW1500, but I’m waiting on a smaller speaker to arrive as the stock one won’t fit. I’m interested to see how that works. I also have a Loksound steam decoder on order. After that I’ll probably hold off buying more until I can try some of the other sound decoders that are hopefully coming out soon.
HOW does one know what really ‘Sound’s good’? Imagination?
We are listening to sound’s that disappeared years ago.
Most of today’s sound’s are synthesized.
Any actual sound’s are coming through a tiny speaker reproducing less than 4 octaves - out of a possible 9 - yet people claim they can tell the difference between 12 and 16 cylider engine’s. Ear’s do not have memories, but Imagination’s do. If One half or more of the notes on your piano are gone (below A=440), can you hear the whole Symphony?
From my day’s in Audio, I remember people ear’s could not really differentiate between Quality & Quantity. It was common knowlege that If a salesman wanted to ‘push’ or sell a certain product, all he had to do was make it somewhat louder - the bass became fuller, the high’s clearer. Not surprisingly, speaker’s with the larget baffle (eclosure) moving the most air generally get the nod. Bradway has done their homework.
Newer effort’s (Athearn?) have been to make their unit’s LOUDER,but Does that make them better? To some Yes.
I remember the distinctive sound’s of the Santa Fe E-1 & 3’s passing by on the Surf Line every night. The 1’'s were powered by Winton and the 3’s by EMD, but today I couldn’t tell you the difference. I only have memories - and I was there.
I am hearing impaired which wipes out everything above 3000 hertz anyway.
I like the QSI steam and also own the Reading T-1 4-8-4 with the Lok Sound. When I first ran it it sounded pretty good, but definately will be able to make a side by side comparision tomorrow with my BLI M1a.
I rode behind steam at various places years ago and you think you would remember specific sounds but learned it is in the memory. However EBT’s #14 whistle and stack talk I can pick out spot on. Imagine that. (The other EBT’s probably sound just like the 14 =)
Dont know about the Tusnami but in the LHS there was a Spectrum 2-8-0 that had a soundtrax installed and it sounded pretty good. But when stacked next to the BLI M1a it lacked the “Beef”
Examining sound samples on the internet at various sites and I found that one desiel sounds like another although very few actually reached down with that bass because in real life they are BIG and need to sound BIG.
I will be able to tell more in this thread after recieving my T-1 tomorrow am and comparing it to the QSI.
[:)] I received back my Kato SD40-2 with the 2x16mm speaker set
properly re-installed. The Loksound is now loud enough and seems
fine in other respects.
Yesterday I sent my Atlas GP40-2 and Athearn AMD-103 back to get
those speakers re-installed; I expect the same improvement in them.
I guess I have a “slight” advantage in that not only did I hear 1st and 2nd generation diesel prototypes back in the late 1970s, but I also tape recorded them. The sounds that are especially on the low end do come out a bit distorted.
Don you bring up some very good points. BTW: It’s actually difficult to differentiate between the EMD 12 cylinder and 16 cylinder EMDs, however, “soundwise” there is a difference between a 12 cylinder and that “monster” 20 cylinder in that the larger prime mover has a slightly deeper “hum” to it when throttled up.
Of course, this is not a big deal. I think most of us are happy to be able to get the sounds that we’re hearing today from QSI and Soundtraxx…which just a few years ago were dreams in the making. From what I’ve been reading above, it looks like I’ll like the Lok Sound units as well.
I finished my SW1500 install. I had to use the 2x16 speaker set in this one as nothing else would fit. The sound is still very good and more than loud enough. The more sound equipped units I have, the more I want to turn them down anyway. Having a bunch of diesels idling away in a small room can get annoying fast if they’re turned up too much. The Athearn BB SW1500 also runs better than it ever has before with this decoder.
Oddly, even though all the decoders I’ve bought are supposed to be v 3.5, this latest one acts different with respect to the horn. With my other two Loksound diesels, the horn cuts out if you press it twice in rapid succession. The SW1500 doesn’t cut out, but goes into doppler if it’s moving. The manual mentions this but I could never get the other two to do it.
I also did a steam install in a Bachmann 4-6-0, and I have to say, I’m not nearly as impressed with this one. The bell is great, and the chuffs are okay, but the whistle is odd. I used the Mikado decoder and the whistle has a kind of two note song to it that seems to always play full length. It’s very hard if not impossible to get a short toot from it. Also, the whistle is not very loud even at max volume. I know this can be fixed with a Lokprogrammer, but I haven’t got one of those yet.
Speaking of Lokprogrammer, does anyone know if it will run on a Mac using Virtual PC or a similar PC emulator?
Maybe we’re on to something here. The more sound units a person has, the lower the volume will get until eventually they’re all silent and we come full circle back to where we were before sound.
