A few years ago I picked up two new Bowser FT B power/sound chassis for the Bowser ABBA consist. I’ve had bad luck with them and both were sent back to Bowser for repair (decoder replacement). But before and after the replacements, I was having difficulty programming them. I found the best success with operations programming but with erratic results.
I learned that I needed a “booster”, and the Tsunami PTB-100 was recommended. Given the Bowser sound units are Tsunami, this only made sense. So reluctantly I bought one ($50 on Ebay), got it yesterday, and installed it this morning.
Well, it works! I can now do all my programming on the dedicated programming track and the heretofore problem units are no longer programming nightmares.
While its a shame something extra was needed for the Tsunamis, at least the addition does work and takes the stress out of what should be routine stuff.
Wish I had bought it sooner (or not bought the Bowser sound chassisss).
I’m a DCC newbie and ran into the same problem on the first two updates I did to a couple of Athearn Genesis DCC-Ready locos. The Tsunami OEM sound decoders apparently need more power to program them than what the command station booster (Digitrax DCS100) will supply to the programming track.
The catch 22 here is that in all their great wisdom Soundtraxx apparently decided it best to protect the end user from themselves by locking out the ability to program Tsunami on the mainline. Can’t program on the mainline. Can’t program on the programming track ~ without a booster for the booster.
It’s too bad so many DCC manufacturers haven’t updated their hardware in many, many years. I’ve found it kind of frustrating to find that after buying a top-of-the-line DCC system that I have to keep buying so many add-on’s to get everything to work the way I expected in the first place.
On the other hand, maybe we should all count our blessings. I can’t wait (yes, I can) to see what happens if & when the model railroad manufacturers pick up on what has happened in the audiophile world which has transformed into something now called “luxury audio”. Snake Oil extrodinaire. And $$$$$$$$ too. First on the list would be “special DCC wire” ($100+/ft) for bus & feeders and $100/oz track cleaner that makes the locomotive “sound better”.
I had problems programming and reading back Cvs on the programming track with Tsunamis as well as QSIs and the PTB100 cured those problems. Contrary to Arto’s experience I can program on the main without the booster except for changing addresses. I don’t know about any “locking out” issues.
The Zephyr puts out more power to the program track than the DCS100, even when not using “blast” mode. So I’ve never had a problem or a need for a booster. Since I’ve gotten rid of all Tsunamis, I don;t expect to have a problem when I add a DCS100 - my last layout was still small enough that the Zephyr was the command station, but track power was supplied by a DB150. Plus most of my programming is done off-layout with a PR3, which also has never had a problem reading anyone’s decoder (I often take my program track and laptop to the club shows and fix other members’ locos with JMRI - and there is a HUGE variety of decoders in use. Best is when the person has no idea what they had installed. At least I can get a manufacturer when the decoder is read). My standard sound decoder is Loksound and they seem to have no issues with needing extra power on the program track - the Lokprogrammer actually only uses a 12V power supply,
Bowser has since upgraded their sound units to all use Loksound. The one I had with a Tsunami I swapped for a Loksound one, not for programming problems but because of the anemic horns. Plus my entire fleet with one exception, an Atlas Trainmaster, are all Loksounds of some sort, including my steamers with sound.
Since these command stations all existed BEFORE the sound decoders that need boosters, I fault the decoder manufacturer for not testing this. They all say they comply with the NMRA specs, which is true, because this is another small detail they forgot to include, how much power is needed on the program track. The lower the better - so you cna safely test new installs without fear of frying the decoder if you have a wire crossed.
Ops mode programming should work for anything. The one thing that is usually not supported is changing the address to another of the same type. IE< if the loco is 3, you can’t ops mode program it to 10, or if it is 1234, you can’t ops mode program it to 5678. You can, however,
Just FYI for anyone who is following the thread, I have an NCE Power Cab and it does not need a booster of any sort to program any decoder in either ops mode or program mode. In addition to Loksound Selects which are now my decoders of choice, I have a Loksound V3.5, Tsunamis (2), QSIs (3), Digitrax non-sound, and two older Soundtraxx LCDs.
I’m not trying to brag here. I just wanted to let those who may be contemplating buying a DCC system that NCE can handle them all without additional equipment. If someone knows of a decoder that NCE can’t handle on its own please speak up.
Like I said, neither does Zephyr (or even the older DB150 - but that doesn’t HAVE a program track output). The PowerPro command station usually needs a booster too, like the DCS100. It’s all in what was made when. The PowerPro and DCS100 predate sound decoders, or at least ones that need extra power due to the way they are designed, the Zephyr and PowerCab came after.
In addition to what Randy wrote, the Digitrax PR3 in stand alone programmer mode, will also program any decoders (sound or silent) without the need of a programming track booster. I also beleive the Sprog III will also do the same. I wonder why Arto did not go that route instead of purchasing a PTB100.
SPROG will do sound decoders with no booster. It’s probably the fastest programming device you can get, at least whe using any ‘modern’ decoders tat support direct modes. Only thing faster use non-NMRA protocols and are proprietary to specific manufacturers, like the method used by ESU with the Lokprogrammer. Using the same method that can blast a few megs of sound files to the decoder in minutes, it reads and writes the hundreds of CVs in seconds.
I’m not sure what you are talking about here BUT I never had an issue programming on the main. You just need to switch your system program mode to main. (POM mode)
That said, the reason you couldn’t program a sound decoder on a program track was to PROTECT THE DECODER. Let me explain: In the early days everyone had to pretty much hand wire up their decoders. There were no fancy standard sockets. And to make matters worse not all engines were DCC ready. For example some motors were directly grounded to frame. Well if you applied full power to a decoder while the motor was not properly isolated or a function output where it wasn’t properly isolated you RISKED burning out the decoder. So to protect the decoder they operated in low power mode incase there was a short.
That said, sound decoders took a lot more power to start up, and as a result the couldn’t be properly programmed on a low current track. This is why boosters are needed!
You long windedly said the same thing Arto said. Maybe Arto used the incorrect term of “locking out” but he is correct if your description is accurate. If a decoder maker suggests you don’t use POM in order to PROTECT THE DECODER but said decoder needs a booster when using the programming track, then indeed it’s a catch 22.
Arto
The catch 22 here is that in all their great wisdom Soundtraxx apparently decided it best to protect the end user from themselves by locking out the ability to program Tsunami on the mainline. Can’t program on the mainline. Can’t program on the programming track ~ without a booster for the booster.
I’m not sure what you are talking about here BUT I never had an issue programming on the main. You just need to switch your system program mode to main. (POM mode)
That said, the reason you couldn’t program a sound decoder on a program track was to PROTECT THE DECODER. Let me explain: In the early days everyone had to pretty much hand wire up their decoders. There were no fancy standard sockets. And to make matters worse not all engines were DCC ready. For example some motors were directly grounded to frame. Well if you applied full power to a decoder while the motor was not properly isolated or a function output where it wasn’t properly isolated you RISKED burning out the decoder. So to protect the decoder they operated in low power mode incase there was a short.
That said, sound decoders took a lot more power to start up, and as a result the couldn’t be properly programmed on a low current track. This is why boosters are needed!
You long windedly said the same thing Arto said. Maybe Arto used the incorrect term of “locking out” but he is correct if your description is accurate. If a decoder maker suggests you don’t use POM in order to PROTECT THE DECODER but said decoder needs a booster when using
Arto went that route (PTB100) because Arto is a DCC newbie and doesn’t know what Sprog III is or if it will work wioth anything Arto has already spent $$$$$ bucks on.
Arto also went that route (PTB100) because that’s what Arto’s local dealer had in stock and recommended and Arto had go get on with it and didn’t want to wait for anything that had to be ordered or bought online.
I’m a new DCC user (as I’ve said for the thousandth time).
→ New user puts his first loco(s) on mainline track. All of the locos new user tries to program on mainline are BLI Blueline & Paragon2. What is newbie trying to do? Change the default address of 3 to something else. It all works.
→ New user decides to modify (upgrade) two DCC-ready Athern Genesis. Newbie decides best approach is to just use OEM components since newbi has ONE Athearn Genesis that is factory installed Tsunami.
→ Newbie user finds that he CANNOT program upgraded Athearn Genesis with Tsunami on mainline. Of course, all newbie wants to do at this point is change the locos address, which he can in fact not do. Newbie is “locked out” from performing this procedure on the mainline. Newbie finds this out from dealer (who also used the term “locked out”).
→ newbie finds out (from dealer) that he needs to buy another component to boost power to the programing track so that he can program Tsunami on programming track.
Do you really need someone (as in newbie) to explain this to you?
If my response seems rather curt that’s because it is. Anyone who doesn’t like it can simply ignore me. This has been a rather frustrating (and expensive) tw
The DCS from Digitrax does not conform completely to the NMRA Recommended Practices for programming tracks. But The Tsunami does. Early Tsunamis cannot have CV 17 or 18 (long, or 4-digit, address) programmed on the programming track with the Digitrax system. Rather than leaving their customers in a bind, SoundTraxx “jimmied” later units to overcome Digitrax’ weakness.
WORKAROUND: Program the 2 digit address of your choice on the programming track. Move to the main. Confirm operation of your loco on the main. Select Programming OPS Mode for the 2 digit address you’ve set into the loco. (Po display) Select AD2=???. Press the right knob to get into the 4 digit mode. Enter your desired 4 digit address. When your DT400 asks if you want to activate the 4 digit address, answer “Y”.
If you are using DecoderPro, as I do, here’s what I find works. Set the 2 digit address on the programming track with the software and save the file. Move to the main and select programming on the main. Set the 4 digit address and select 4 digit addressing on the main. Quit and save the computer file. Operate the loco on the main with the 4 dig
My intent was to acknowledge that I truly did need the “boost” to do the programming I could not reliably do with my existing Digitrax Super Chief with a second booster.
I surely did not intend for folks to get into a “contest” over what is right or wrong or what works or not or what should work or should not work.
Not saying there’s anythign wrong with bying a PTB-100.
Love how SOundtraxx states THEIR issue as a problem with Digitrax. By “jimmying” it they mean adding the 2 cents worth of resistor and diode to limit the inrush current.
However, that ‘workaround’ is exactly what I stated. If the loco has a 2 digit address, you can program a logn address on the main, but not another 2 digit address. And if it has a logn address, you can program a short address but not a different long with using Ops Mode. Nothing is “locked out” (and some other brands fo decoders have this same restriction, and if you think about what happens when an address gets changed, and how Ops Mode works, it actually makes sense) and it does annoy me when a dealer who is the nearest thing to an expert you might have available offers misleading information. We had a guy from out of state come into the LHS one day all messed up with his DCC system. He had a small 4x8 layout and the LHS near him sold him a Super Chief radio system…he paid more for the DCC system than his entire other investment in model railroading at that point. ANyway, if you started typing a number in the throttle and when hitting the 4th digit, the throttle went back to AD2=, the something else is wrong. At that point it wasn’t even communicating with the decoder, nor does the command station EVER know what brand of decoder it is talking to. Or care. Fresh out of the package, the decoder would have short address 3, which means if you wanted to program it to a long address on the main, it would work. Just as the Soundtraxx instructions state. Press Program until you get to Ops. Click the left knob to change from AD2= to AD4=. Key in your number, like 1234. Press enter. Display will say AD4=?/Y. Press enter again. On a DT402 you can be doubly sure by pressing enter a few times, because the AD4=?/Y never goes away until you press Exit. I suspect you were trying to program a 4 digitr address that wasn;t reall
I think that Arto is overlooking that important point about programming addresses on the main. Those quotes that he provided from the Soundtraxx web site actually are “troublehooting tips”.
The words “cannot change address when programming on the main” are not a declarative statement from Soundtraxx that the Tsunami cannot change addresses on the main. Rather, those quoted words are a hypothetical user comment about being unable to change addresses on the main.
Soundtraxx then explains that you can only change to the type of address currently not in use when programming on the main. So, as Randy explains, if you want to change the long address POM, then you must first change from the current long address to a short address, then program a new long address. So, a Tsunami decoder may be programmed on the main including the long address.