I am new to the forum. I have been interested in model railroading for about twenty years, buying and collecting rolling stock, buildings, and track along the way. I have set up a couple of small 4x8 tracks with the basic loop, but have never had the room to do a real layout until now. I have a area that is 9’ x 14’ and I am going to be building a walk in type. I am looking for some advice on scenery and bench work. Thanks you for your time in reading and suggestions. Stacey G.
Welcome to the forums.
My suggestion would be to get a couple of books on getting started in model railroading. Our host has them available at SHOP above, your LHS may have a good one and they are available through Walthers and other model railroad suppliers. They will give you some basic suggestions and you take it from there. There is a set if you go to SHOP/Special Issues/Special Issues that has a lot of information. There is also a good set under SHOP/Books/Beginners. There are also DVD’s available. I go back and look over the different books when I am thinking of doing a new section.
I’m not trying to dodge your question, just there is so much information available that it would take pages here to convey it. This is a great place to ask questions once started and you don’t understand something or need advice on making choices. You will find many folks willing to offer advice once you get going. One thing, there is really no wrong or right way to do things (for the most part). Some folks prefer one method over another, the next one will have their own preferences. You need to sort them out and find what works best for you in your situation. There are many scenic bases (plywood, foam, plaster over webbing) and many layouts use several types, just depending on the particular need. Personally I like using ridgid foam for my base and small hills, It allows easy planting of trees and carving out ponds and low spots. I have certainly not ruled out a cardboard web with plaster over it for large background mountains, where the trees will be primarily puff ball type.
There are many natural products you can find in your yard or nearby woods that will help keep costs down and give you the satisfaction of making something. There are also many willing sellers of products, so that you don’t have to do much more than put things in place.
How far you take what you want
Just out of curiosity, what scale are you doing?
How much ‘growth’ are you willing to stand? IOW, how are your skills? Are you interested in doing a lot of learning for this layout, or just a tempered amount? What are you comfortable with, including your understanding of what you’l like your layout to offer you?
I ask these questions because you don’t want to set yourself up for disappointment, and most certainly not outright failure. So, you must first picture what you want your layout to offer you in the way of fun…with fun presumably being the chief byproduct of the whole enterprise. Are you willing to spend some time designing and mapping out a reasonable benchwork that supports a fun and interesting track plan that doesn’t cram too much into the space and that doesn’t also leave you bored to tears by next Christmas?
What type of trains playing do you like at present? Do you understand that your interests and learning will both conspire to change what you take as truth today about the hobby? Are you willing to forestall the inevitable desire to tear down what you have built and try for something better by putting in more hard thinking today?
You have asked for advice. This type of generic advice is more valuable than the kind where I would urge you to do modular construction, or to use L-girder, or open box frame, cookie cutter, laminated spline roadbed, and so on. First, figure out what you want. From there, you will know what curves you need, what frog number in your turnouts, and so on…where and what type of industries you will want your toy railroad to ‘service’. From there, you design a decent track plan. From there, you design the benchwork that will be most efficient and cost-friendly for that track plan. Then, you get the materials, start measuring from a plan with dimensions listed, and begin to saw and screw wood or steel framing together. Later, you decide how to attach roadbed of some k
HO
Welcome. Some observations from my current experience at getting back to the hobby after 30 years, first with my grandson’s 2009 4’ x 6’ layout and then my 2012 5’ x 9’ HO layout (under construction).
a) I also encourage getting basic books or other references (many on this site) as others mentioned above, on track plans, realistic operation, benchwork, track laying, wiring, scenery and getting familiar with them. Also key websites (e.g., several on DCC if you go that route). I found it very helpful to read ahead alot; e.g., on DCC and turnouts, as it affected trackwork plans. Also, reading ahead helps you understand the considerations / questions / issues in advance rather than missing an issue and making more mistakes than necessary. A Walthers catalog in the scale you are interested is an easy way to see much (not all) of what is available. The MR articles can be a big help…I used their Virginian project (early 2012 issues as my benchwork approach, for instance. Also check out the related videos on the MR site.
b) I encourage trying track planning software (some prefer pencil & paper). There are some free ones available that people find quite adequate. I used one and fiddled with it for 3 winter seasons while deciding whether to plunge ahead. The learning made the current design more workable I believe as I had more insight on tradeoffs, etc.
c) Again, on planning ahead, note that some items normally done later (e.g., adding structures) can come into play early as they may affect track layout. I had that issue arise when I decided on engine structures after I had my layout designed and most track laid.
d) Be prepared to be surprised at what you take on and/or enjoy most. In my earlier life I had hardly gotten to the point of many structures. On my grandson’s layout, I had a ball building building kits, adding some scenery, etc. Plan to try some things you may think are beyond your
The other folks are offering good advice. But, as to your actual question, I’ve seen really good and really terrible examples of scenery and bench work done with all the various versions of same. I think any can be made to work–it’s all in the execution. Buy the books.
BUT, please share more with us about where you want to take this. You’ve said “HO”. What era? Any particular prototype railroads? Or locations? Are you thinking heavy mainline or a semi-decrepit branch? Or both? Or perhaps a specialty railroad–I always liked logging!!! But a steel mill operation would be awesome! Or, wait a minute, a seaport operation!
Should we presume that there are walls/doors all around? I figure there are, but…
In layout planning, it seems minimum radius is where it all starts. Bigger is always better, but then I don’t see you going with 48". Though you could. No, really. Except it wouldn’t be a walk in. Unless there’s a bridge. But that goes back to whether you want to run 4-12-2’s or logging 2-6-6-2T’s or just plain nice little Mikes. Oh, yeah–there’s those diesel thingys.
I’d like to join the other folks in wishing you congratulations on having a new space to create a wonderful layout. This is a good day.
And apologies for going beyond your question.
Ed
Stacey!
Welcome to the forums and congratulations on making your long desired layout a reality![#welcome][bow]
A little more information would help us help you. We know you are working in HO.
Do you have a track plan? I rather suspect that you do given the time you have put into the hobby. If so, then you could consider posting it to let forum members with layout design experience offer advice on what style of benchwork would work best, and also what potential problems your plan might have (if you want that type of input).
You could also give us a list of the buildings that you have acquired and how you want to arrange them.
I have also been in the hobby for several years but am only now approaching the construction of a layout.
Dave
As mentioned earlier create a track plan based on what your era, type of operation, industry types, etc, then plan the benchwork to fit the track plan. The compromise comes when the limits of your benchwork require you to adjust the track plan.
Many, myself incuded, have just built the benchwork and then make a track plan fit, but I would’t do it this way again.
9’ x 14’ will give you a nice size layout, just don’t cram it full of track.
Hi!
As we say in Texas… YeeeeeHaaaaa! Man, I do remember when the last of my kids moved off and all of a sudden I had a decent sized train room. Wow, I know your feeling!!!
Welcome to the Forum. The folks here have an awful lot of experience and knowledge and yes, some strong opinions. Do not hesitate to ask questions, and believe me, there are no “dumb” ones. Well, maybe a few, but they are rather rare…
I will give you some basic advice that I suspect most will second…
Take your time and do it right. Start with putting together a benchwork & track plan. This is the base for the entire layout, so don’t be in a rush.
Solid benchwork, well laid track, and proper/safe wiring will get your trains moving. But, before you go on, test, test, test. Now is the time to get the trackwork “bulletproof” with zero derailments.
If you do not get these components right up front, the layout will be a problem from then on.
Oh, its a hobby… ENJOY !!!
Wow, Thanks everyone for all the insight on this. I will try to give a little more info. My plan is loosely based on the Port Thomas & Southern and Timber Ridge Logging Co. in October 2012. My plan will have a 48"x48" start on the short wall, will run the 9’ wall with 24"depth the 14’ wall with 24" depth, round the last corner with a 36"depth, and finish the last 9’ wall with another 48" depth. I hope that makes since. I am modeling a totally fictional railway with two towns. I will have a logging camp, a coal mine, and a stockyard with a processing plant in one of the towns. I really would like for each town to support one another. A friend suggested last night to do a lower level staging yard. thought that would be a good idea. as far as era, I am going with late 60’s early 70’s. once again I really want to thank everyone for all the advice and interest. Stacey G.
Stacey:
Sounds like you do have a plan!
One question I would ask is: Can you reach all the way into the 36" and 48" areas? If not you might be creating a problem where you can’t easily get to the back of the layout either for construction or derailments etc. Access hatches are a possibility but running track across them can be problematic. They can also interfere with your staging design.
Something to think about.
Dave
Dave,
The 48" sections are at the ends of the layout and are angled in to the 24" sections. I should be able to reach every thing from on side or the other. The 36" deep corner may become a problem, I have considered a access hatch hidden behind a mountain maybe. This could be were the coal mine ends up. What really scares me the most is building scenery, I have never tried to do it with any detail.
Thanks for watching out for me.
Stacey
That’s an affliction shared by many.
Once you’ve chosen a method for making your scenery, you might try some practice sections. If one doesn’t work, you can just toss it, analyze your mistakes, and try again. There’s a lot less pressure.
Or, if you feel that you’d rather dive right in, remember that (usually) scenery is removable.
As for books, I was very impressed with this one:
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12433.html
Ed
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Oh, goody! Now the forum won’t let me space between paragraphs.
Thanks Ed, I will check out this book.
Layout height effects reach also, the higher it is the less distance you can reach in without damaging scenery. Do a little experimenting as to comfortable height. Don’t forget to think of trees and buildings on the layout when you do your checking.
If a hard to reach area is in a corner, you can cut out a triangle out of the corner big enough for you to come up through. Curve your backdrop in front of the access and have it at a height you can reach over easily. Unless you have a spur going into the corner to an industry, your track will be curving and not using the corner area, though you may have to use a wider radius to clear the area needed. If your exterrior wall is the same color as the top of the backdrop (sky blue), it won’t be very noticable.
Good luck,
Richard
Thanks Richard, looking at a 42" height. I have decided to reduce the corner a little so I can reach all the way to the wall.
Hey there Stack. I think Cowman pretty much summed it up here. There is literally, a TON of info here and all over the internet. I spend alot of time looking at youtube videos of various ways of doing layouts. There’s videos out there covering all aspects of building a layout from framework to operating sessions and everything in between. And, of course, I find the people here very informative and always willing to share their knowledge.
For myself, I’m going N scale and sticking to the module style. Reason being, I know sometime down the road I’m going to have to move this thing and really don’t want to spend days dismantling it in order to do this. Just a matter of removing a few clamps and away they go. Also, with moving them in mind, I’m going to be using foam for my mouintains, rocks, and various ground cover. This serves two purposes. It makes it light and also, the low density foam is very forgiving to bumps.
Right now, I can’t afford to build a layout so I’m gathering information so when I can get some extra cash, I know how to go about it. Where Cowman says: “There are many natural products you can find in your yard or nearby woods that will help keep costs down and give you the satisfaction of making something”, it’s very true. This is a great way to save some money. As great as the store-bought products are, and as life-like as they are, it DOES get costly. By finding natural products, you, not only save money, but also force your mind to think outside the box. There are several small items from a broken toy or radio (or whatever) that can be used for things on a layout. Straws become water pipes, small tubes become chimnies. It’s endless.
I think the first step to building any size layout, is to think about how far into it you want to go, what are your plans for it in the furture. Do you want a permanent room-filler? Or is the small portable layout more to your liking? And as Cowman also mentions, a layout is truly never finish
Thanks Lorne, All info is helpful. I am open to all advice and tips. So far in this post it has made me think and rethink a lot of my plans. I will check out some You Tube videos, Sometimes seeing something done helps to realize what you want to do.
Thanks Again,
Stacey G.
As far as benchwork types and construction, a lot is dependent on the materials available in your area. It has become quite popular to use extruded foam rigid insulation board, either as the deck of the layout itself or as the scenery base to either side of a raised track subroadbed. However, where I am in Southern California, extruded foam insulation board is as hard to find as Twinkies and just as expensive. The dimensional lumber available here is pretty bad as well. Thus, I bought 1/2" cabinet grade (7 ply) plywood and ripped all of the framing members I needed for my open grid benchwork. The plywood is far more stable then dimensional lumber and is stronger, much lighter and takes screws much better than MDF. The only dimensional lumber I used on my current layout were several 2" by 3" studs I ripped from well seasoned 2" by 4" studs to create a backbone frame for a central peninsula and 2" by 2" glue blocks I used to reinforce joints between the plywood framing members. The light weight and high strength of the plywood combined with glued and screwed joints allowed me to cantilever about 80% of my layout from the perimeter walls and central peninsula frame. The benchwork will easily hold my 210 pounds in the middle of spans over 13 feet long between the few legs holding up the two helix areas I could not cantilever. The cantilever design provides ample under layout storage due to the lack of support legs. I have to confess that I have a lot more advanced woodworking experience and tools than most. Even so, I could have done everything but rip the 2" by 3" studs (they had to be dead nuts straight) with just a skill saw, drill and screw driver if I didn’t own more tools.