Hey all! After growing up with Lionel trains and my dad handing some down to my older brothers ([V]), I am getting started with my own stuff!
My first question: I’ve narrowed my engine search to a GP-7 or GP-9. In researching the difference between the 7 and 9, I was told that the GP-9 is a locomotive and the GP-7 is a diesel engine. I thought an engine and a locomotive were the same thing, no?
Thanks.
For many years the main difference between a lionel GP-7 and a GP-9 was the GP-9 had dynamic brakes it was a piece of plastic that sat on the long nose end that had vents to it and looked kinda like mini wings on the engine .
I’ve always been told a locomotive was a steam engine
but what do I know [%-)]
They are both locomotives. Both of them are powered by diesel engines. In casual talk, either a steam locomotive or a diesel locomotive may be referred to as an “engine”; an electric locomotive may be referred to as a “motor”.
What Lionel called a GP9 was actually a GP7 with a dynamic-brake blister added. A real GP9 had a more powerful engine and a very slightly different external appearance. Either could have dynamic brakes.
Although most locomotives have one engine, there are exceptions. Articulated steam locomotives and some larger diesel-electrics, like the Big Boy, the EMD E units, and the DDA40X, for example, had two engines. It can be argued that, except for those with Young valve gear, all ordinary two-cylinder steam locomotives have two engines, since the mechanism on one side can operate independently of the other.
As I understand the parlance, almost any vehicle that pulls or pushes a train down a track is a locomotive.
Over the years a lot of power sources have been tried out. If you don’t count horses and mules, first there was steam power, and compressed air, straight diesel, electricity, and diesel-electric. Except along the Northeast corridor and a few other places, where pure electrics rule,* the “winner” since just after the end of WWII seems to be the diesel-electric locomotive, which is commonly referred to simply (but incorrectly) as a diesel.
Inside a diesel-electric locomotive is a large diesel engine, sometimes called the “prime mover.” It’s purpose is to drive a generator or alternator to produce electricity (either DC or AC) which in turn is fed the the “traction motors” which actually drive the wheels Having electricity as the final step in the power-process greatly simplifies the overall control system for the train.
The prototypes for the model locomotives that you inquired about are both diesel-electrics.
The terms locomotive and engine are used interchaneably by the public. The terms engine and motor have special meanings, mostly lost in the mists of time, in both the toy train world and the real world, both within the realm of trains and totally outside of it. Check Wikipedia or just Google the terms.
This is very basic, and as such is a gross over-simplification, but it’s a start. Terminology can vary by railroad, region, country and over time.
*The “pure electric” locomotives get their power from overhead catenary wires or, more rarely, from third rails. Toy train model locomotives are almost all electric, but there have been a few that were powered by wind-up clockwork-spring motors, and a very few powered by compressed air and other interesting methods, from batteries to heavy flywheel
QILLART,
[#welcome] to DA FORUM. The gp7 and 9 are both diesel engines and as RT said the difference is the little wing on top towards the rear of engine. Both are great runners. I have some in Lionel and Williams. The one I have in Lionel is the Rock Island GP9 and it will pull about 8-10 cars. On the account of only one motor. I also have a Williams GP9 and it will pull tree stumps, it has two motos. So before you purchase one of these beauts see what type of motor,s, are in them. Have fun but watch it, it is addicting.
laz57
The “real” 1-1 scale,GP-7 and GP-9 locomotives, although commonly referred to as “diesels,” along with many, many others, are actually diesel-electrics.
The toy models, by Lionel and others, are – of course – purely electric. To refer to them as “diesels” is perfectly acceptable to distinguish them from toy steam locomotives, such as the Lionel #773 “Hudson” as well as toy electric locomotives such as the Lionel #2332 “GG1”,
I don’t mean to be picky, but it seems to be a good idea to start the new member off right. The terminology is confusing enough as it is.
If anyone disagrees, please be specific. If I’m shown to to be wrong, I’ll cheerfully admit it.
.
Thanks all!
Laz, the one I am interested in starting with looks to only have one engine but it is a “PullMor” engine with “magnetraction”. Do you think that can pull 10 cars? Here it is on eBay. Don’t bid on it! [:D]
It also has TMCC which I don’t even think I need (yet?) and Railsounds and some research says this is a good deal for being brand new and in box. Thoughts?
[#welcome] Good luck bidding. Let us know if you get it. Then we would love to see a picture of it on track.
QUILLART,
Good luck on your bidding. Yes the pullmore motors are good reliable motors. They need a drop of oil every now and then but they are great pullers. Good Luck, let us know how you made out.
laz57
Welcome Gillart. I have an older Lionel NYC GP9 (8477) with single motor & magnetraction. It will pull 8-10 cars (lighter modern cars are easier to pull) on flat track. I get some wheel spinning if the cars are too heavy or long train on a grade. The item you’re interested in looks like a nice piece. Good luck.
Welcome to a great hobby, Gillart. Tell us if you got it and what you plan to do with it. 
[#welcome] gillart,
The terms locomotive and engine are used quite interchangeably by most people, just as motor and engine are used by car enthusiests. The term motor actually refers to an electrically driven device that powers something, inapropriately the term motor has been used to apply to a car’s engine, when in reality a car does have a motor in it but it is the starter motor to crank the engine over.
In model trains I have seen; battery powered, electric powered(household electric), alcohol burning and coal burning steam powered G gauge engines.
If you like to save a few dollars on your engine purchases I would suggest going with Williams trains, they have nice equipment at good prices and the trains are very dependable. Bachmann now owns Williams Trains so you have to go to Bachmann’s website then click on Williams trains, you can get a whole set for almost half the price of a Lionel set. You won’t have command control or track with a built-in roadbed like Fastrac.
Just thought that I would mention that there are other companies that make O gauge trains; like Atlas, MTH, Weaver, Williams and Third Rail Brass.
Lee F.
[#welcome] gillart. First train? What have you been waiting for? [:D]
Jack
I know it’s only wikipedia but look here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM-EMD_locomotives
scroll down to the GP section
I see it ended with one bid I hope it was yours. You will enjoy that engine if you won it.
Welcome to the forum. Lots of good people here that are willing to share their knowledge and experience, so keep asking your questions.
I have a mid-1970’s Lionel GP-9 that has a single pullmore motor and rubber traction tires. I also have a dual motor Williams GP-9. Either one will pull 10 cars without problems on a level track.
Enjoy the bobby. You will soon discover that only one locomotive is not enough…
Yep I got it! Thanks all for the advice. Also waiting on the 6-25053 NYC box car, the 6-26154 NYC tank car, and the 6-36566 NYC caboose.
Perhaps I should think about getting some tracks??? [:I]
Yup. You will need some track. Also, what are you planning on using for a power supply?
Everybody has their own opinion about what the best track and best power supplies are. Personally, I have Lionel O27 tubular track that I gres up with and some Lionel Fastrack that my Polar Express set started me on. For power, I’m using a postwar 1033 transformer on one loop of track and a Legacy system powered by a 180 watt Lionel Powerhouse on the other two loops of track.
The best thing to do is to shop around and read up on what is available, and purchase what seems right for you.
Your first step is to find out what the minimum curve size (radius or diameter) on your GP-9 is. Your locomotive will operate on larger curve sizes, but is likely to de-rail on smaller curve sizes.
‘O’ gage refers to the distance between the outside rails. Common Lionel ‘O’ gage track systems are O27, ‘O’ gage, and Fastrack. All share the same spacing between the outside rails, but differ in the overall height of the track and the profile of the rails.
O27 track used to be the track that Lionel supplied with their lower priced sets. The standard curves in this size track will make a circle about 27" in diameter. Curved track is also available to make larger diameter circles.
The next type of track is standard ‘O’. The rail spacing is the same as O27, but the rail profile is a little taller. The standard curve makes circles 31" in diameter. Again, curved pieces are available to make circles of larger diameters.
Lionel Fastrack is a realitively new offering. It has a molded plastic base that includes simulated balast and tie detail. Curve pieces are available to make circles from 36" diameter to 72" in daimeter, in 6" incraments.
One opinion … since you’ll be buying track for the first time … buy the largest radius track … then you’ll ALWAYS be able to run any engine you may want in the future . I’d suggest 072 … nothing worse than owning bucu pieces on your layout a new engine cannot run on . You’ll be glad you did … believe me . [2c]
Good stuff! Loving the forum so far.
Well with all of this talk about needing some good size radius, I think I will start out on the floor as opposed to my pool table. I like the idea of a l o n g straightaway instead of just constant turning as in a circle around the Christmas tree. And no, I have done zero research on power. I don’t even know yet how any of the wiring works. [sigh]
I know that I do want a new and modern tranformer, and the guy at the hobby shop said to get at least 80 watts, but he said that without having any idea of the size or equipment I was going to work with. Can you even run a, say, 15 foot large oval track with one transformer?? What wattage should I go with?
Lots to learn…