What’s considered a “First” and “Second” Genreation diesels?
Thanks,
Andrew
I consider Everything from FTs to GP18s and SD7s to SD24s First generation, Second Generation for me is from GP20 to SD50/60 and all GEs up to the later -7s, Third Generation from the SD70s and Dash 8s to the SD90s and AC6000CWs and I start 4th Generation at SD70ACe and SD70M-2 and the Gevos
Jay,
Just chiming in. Would S1s and VO-660s be considered early or first generation diesels? Is there a date one would go by designating a diesel being early, first, or second generation? Or, would it just be by model and era?
Tom
Hey Jay,
I would recommend the book, “Vintage Diesel Locomotives” by Mike Schafer… it has great pictures and info on the vintage diesels of EMD, Alco, Baldwin, Lima, GE…etc. I hope this helps…
Brian
‘First generation’ is a term that is associated with dieselization of North American railways. Dieselization actually began in the 1920s, when experimental box cab diesels were tested in yard and transfer service as well as some larger units in road freight and passenger service. But actual dieselization of operations did not begin until the 1930s. GM and ALCO started building end cab switchers during the 1930s, and standardized production models became available in the latter half of the decade. The first production road diesels also appeared during the late 1930s.
The 1940s and 1950s were the years when steam locomotives were replaced by diesels in any big way, and it is generally agreed upon by railfans and modelers alike that the diesels that replaced the steamers were the ‘first generation’ of diesel locomotives on North American railways.
In the early 1960s, the locomotive builders started manufacturing bigger and more powerful locos, such as GM’s GP30 and ALCO’s C-420. As freight cars got longer and heavier, the major railways bought the bigger motive power and either retired, sold, traded in, or moved older diesel locomotives into lesser assignments. So these larger (and mostly low nose) diesels were called ‘second generation’ because they displaced earlier diesels from their original assignments. This second phase of dieselization occured from about the mid-1960s up until the mid-1980s.
‘Third generation’ diesels are bigger and more powerful yet, and they usually use electronic microprocessor technology to monitor the locomotive’s functions. These locomotives have virtually displaced second generation diesels from mainline service on major North American railways.
Here are some examples of the different generations of diesels used in road service:
Freight
First Generation: GP9, RS-3
Second Generation: SD40, C-630
The way I see it, F units, E units and GP/SD7-GP/SD35 was first generation. All of those used the 567 engine, the engine used to dieselize the RR’s. Then GP/SD38-GP/SD50 was second generation, using the 645. GP/SD60-SD90MAC was third, they used the 710, and AC technology was introduced in third. Now we have the SD70ACe and SD70M-2 with Tier II technology, thus 4th generation.
The prime mover is one way-
567 - 1st generation - F units GP/SD up to 35
645 - 2nd generation - GP/SD38 up to 45(?) ( I don’t remember which model first recieved the 710)
710 - 3rd generation - GP/SD 50 (??) up to 70(M)(AC)
But, GP30s are often referred to as the first second generation power.
[quote user=“aloco”]
‘First generation’ is a term that is associated with dieselization of North American railways. Dieselization actually began in the 1920s, when experimental box cab diesels were tested in yard and transfer service as well as some larger units in road freight and passenger service. But actual dieselization of operations did not begin until the 1930s. GM and ALCO started building end cab switchers during the 1930s, and standardized production models became available in the latter half of the decade. The first production road diesels also appeared during the late 1930s.
The 1940s and 1950s were the years when steam locomotives were replaced by diesels in any big way, and it is generally agreed upon by railfans and modelers alike that the diesels that replaced the steamers were the ‘first generation’ of diesel locomotives on North American railways.
In the early 1960s, the locomotive builders started manufacturing bigger and more powerful locos, such as GM’s GP30 and ALCO’s C-420. As freight cars got longer and heavier, the major railways bought the bigger motive power and either retired, sold, traded in, or moved older diesel locomotives into lesser assignments. So these larger (and mostly low nose) diesels were called ‘second generation’ because they displaced earlier diesels from their original assignments. This second phase of dieselization occured from about the mid-1960s up until the mid-1980s.
‘Third generation’ diesels are bigger and more powerful yet, and they usually use electronic microprocessor technology to monitor the locomotive’s functions. These locomotives have virtually displaced second generation diesels from mainline service on major North American railways.
Here are some examples of the different generations of diesels used in road service:
Freight
First Generation: GP9, RS-3
Second Generation: SD40, C-630
Third Generation:
For many the second generation started with the GP20 and ended with the Dash 2 series of the 70s. MY OPINION is it started with the GP30.
The 3rd Generation starts with the SD50 and ends with the SD70.
Fourth Generation starts with the SD70MAC and ends with the SD90MAC…However…I contend that the 4th generation is still current due to the on going production of the SD70M-2. .[;)][:D]
Here’s the basic way I divide it up: First generation replaced steam, Second generation replaced first, third generation replaced second. For EMD I’d say first generation is anything originally built with a 567 block or older. Third generation is where the wide cab became popular in the United States, so the SD60s. For GE, they started building road locomotives en masse in the second generation, so their third generation begins with the massive redesign of the dash series. For Alco, the second generation began with the introduction of the Century series. It’s arguable as to weather the late MLW and Bombardier Alco-based locomotives ever hit the third generation. Baldwin, FM, and Lima are all first generation only producers. As for a fourth generation, I’m still out on what I think of that. I don’t know if Tier II locomotives should be considdered a new generation or an evolutionary step inside of a generation as the EMD Dash-2 upgrade was in the second generation. A generation marks a large design and useage change in the locomotives used by nearly every railroad. Passenger locomotives also evolve with the set as well, and I have no idea if the GE Genesis Evo is going to go anywhere more than a niche locomotive in a couple commuter markets. Cheers! ~METRO
I say second gens came around the mid 70’s to 80’s, but I can’t say that I care about something like this, but oh well. -beegle55