Looking at possibly picking up my first brass locomotive - an [unpainted] ALCO MODELS steam switcher. It’s nicely detailed and in very nice shape. Here’s the description given by the seller:
Excellent overall quality detail
Powered by original equipment precision can motor
All drivers sprung
Sound cam
Brass brake hangers
Much more fine detail
The builder is Kumata (KMT) and was [hand] manufactured in 1977.
I’ve heard mixed reviews about ALCO brass. It is being offered by a reputable brass dealer. Is it worth the $300 consideration?
It mentions a sound cam but there’s no mention of a decoder. How difficult would you expect it to be to convert it over to DCC?
Hmmm…Just noticed that the “power supply” is designated as “AC”. That would mean needing to remotor it for DC/DCC, yes? How much would a replacement NWSL motor typically cost?
I bet the AC is a typo or a misunderstanding. I’d wager it is straight DC.
The sound cam is a whole 'nother animal than the actually recorded electronic sound chips currently used. My memory grows fuzzy (heh - as if it was ever anything but) but I think the cam on an axle was meant to complete (or interrupt?) a circuit with each turn of the axle of something like AM-radio between-the-stations “white noise” that sounded surprisingly like steam exhaust. I no longer recall if the white noise was transmitted at high frequency via the rails, or was mechanically generated by something which rubbed on a wheel rim. Both systems were used. I think it was a sound system created by some Pacific Northwest modelers who wrote quite a bit for MR back in those days about logging and sound. Herb Chaudiere and Lyle Spears? I suspect I am butchering the spelling.
As for ALCO brass steam, I have one, a 2-10-2. A thing of beauty and nicely detailed. However never once was I able to run it on my or any layout. After five (actual, not scale) feet the valve gear would throw a screw (about the size of a pin head) for me to try to find in the ballast and lichen. I no longer have the eyesight to replace those screws, even assuming that somewhere in the workshop I laid in a supply of spares. I do not recall the engine being a very quiet runner, either, which for me made the issue of a sound system rather moot, if not mute.
I am sure whatever I paid for that locomotive was, adjusting for inflation, way over $300 today. The real question is, would I buy that same engine again regardless of price and outdated technology? And the answer is, knowing what I know now, a resounding, no,. But then I no longer model the steam era!
Make sure it’s not for Marklin track. They use AC, but with a 3rd rail (studs in tie center). Don’t know if brass was ever made for Marklin track, but you want to be sure.
Also, make sure it’s not S gauge which also uses AC.
Thanks for the input fellas. The description states it is HO. I’ll double-check with the seller to see if the AC is a typo or not.
As mentioned, I’ve heard mixed reviews about ALCO MODELS. While the model does look good in the pictures, I also want it to run well - without it dropping important screws or sounding like a coffee grinder.
Alco imported several brass engines of varying quality. The only 0-6-0 I remember is a USRA with original details, although there may have been others. I have no experience with that particular engine, but the $300 asking price seems a bit salty to me. A P2K USRA 0-6-0 might be as good or better.
“AC” is certainly a misprint. The Alco engines were DC.
I have never heard of any brass loco made to run on Marklin´s proprietary 3-rail AC system. The loco on the picture would not be able to run on Marklin track - the falnges are just not deep enough.
John Gurdak (the dealer who photographed the above loco) is a first rate dealer and imo as honest as anyone in the industry. He has done great on my behalf, actually obtained rare parts to fix a brass 4-6-6-4 that I was told by one importer they “did not have”, etc.
If you email him questions, he will get back to you.
It’s difficult for me to adequately describe in words how owning and operating, in virtually daily use, HO brass steam power is simply a thrill for me. The level of detailing on the brass (and some brass hybrid) power is just…a level above…what you typically are going to receive with rtr plastic. With the plastic and partial diecast/plastic you have to be very very careful of how you handle it as on any of them I’ve ever tried, it is easy for stuff to be damaged or fall off. Given the dollar value of some brass, I still handle it carefully, but if you lay a brass engine on its side, you generally don’t have to worry about the window awnings or other stuff breaking off, etc. as can and does happen with plastic.
Although I have a few beautiful freight cars from Tangent and others, I find myself mostly just staring at the brass steamers when they run, in utter fascination.
I personally prefer some of the more expensive stuff like W&R imported steam, but there are certain models out there that have a reputation for being nearly “bulletproof” though not always the “quietest”. I have owned the Westside SP 4-10-2 with the open frame motor, and it was one of the all time nicest running steamers I ever saw, because it had a good gearbox from the factory. At least the later PFM/United NKP Berkshires tend to have pretty good gearboxes and are very easily converted over to a can motor.
There are lots of nice Westside and PFM models out there that can be great buys, and Howard himself does use Alco Models steam power, too, on his layout.
There are basically 2 kinds of brass: the shelf queens which in some cases are relatively rare, high value models that don’t get run so much as collected by people who just appreciate the looks of them, and the runners which see lots of layout time.
A few models are actually good as both: the W&R steamers have exceptional quality built into them, are reputed to have stainless steel valve gear and tires on at least some of them, and can be run without even leaving marks on the drivers (I can personally testify to that; after many hours of running, one that I have has drivers that appear to be brand new). W&R was not at all the only importer who brought in quality product; the others mostly did too at varying times and with varying degrees of consistency. One just needs to learn which models made when, which is where getting to know the dealers becomes useful.
Alco models did have a few hit and misses (mostly the early diesel drives) but thier steam usualy ran well. PFM/United were one of the more bullet proof imports back in the day. I have a B&O 2-8-0 that will be going on consignment at the LHS as they have a narrow gauge engine I want. I find brass steam much easier to work on(3 screws and the boiler lifts off the chassis on most models). Alco’s diesel models can be made to run well, but the cost exceeds the value, but I just like brass trains in general and enjoy the challenge to make a balky model run well. My little 2-8-0 has PFM sound, constant brightness light, and is professionaly painted and weathered. Enjoy that first model, and be warned, you can never own just one! Brass gets in your blood! Mike
John got back to me on the 0-6-0 switcher. It is indeed DC and the can motor is quiet and runs smoothly.
John also mentioned that it could use a little lubing. He stated that he doesn’t lube models prior to shipping because the grease could migrate onto the finish - especially in the summer, which makes sense.
Well, I’m giving it some real consideration. It’s a cute l’il bugger and a NYC B-11 0-6-0 would be a nice contrast and compliment to my NYC U-3 USRA 0-8-0.
Well, I mulled it over…and I’m now a proud owner of my first brass locomotive:
I’ll post some pictures of it after it arrives and after I have a chance to test it on DC to see how it really performs.
Eventually I’d like to covert it to DCC. Since I’m in between layouts at the moment, it will give me plenty of time to tinker with it and to see whether I want to go with sound or motor-only control. I’d also like to add working front and rear headlights.
I compared it to prototype pictures of NYC B-11s on the Fallen Flag website and it appears to be fairly accurate. I’ll also have to figure out which road number I want to detail it with after I paint it. So many things to ponder…[:P]
Congratulations! Seems like a reasonable first purchase, and I hope you are very happy with it! From the photos, it appears to be in truly first class condition.
Let us know how you make out with it, please.
What you may find out is that even within one class of steam power there often were considerable variations. Hopefully, you will find which one it is a model of.
I did a little research last night in a couple of my NYC steam books and discovered that NYC B-Class 0-6-0s came in a whole-slew of variations. This one is a B-11 and the B-11s can break down into quite a few sub sub-classes; suffice it to say enough to begin running out of letters of the alphabet.
Supposedly this one is a B-11L and, according to my NYC references, these were used by the B&A (Boston & Albany). While I have not found a specific picture labeled as a B-11L, I have found a few pictures on the Fallen Flags website of NYC 0-6-0s that resemble it closely. I will use one of them to choose my prototype number from. Fun stuff!
I forgot to mention that this engine doesn’t come with the original box but John said that he would provide “a suitable box for protection during shipping”. I’ll see if I can hunt down an empty Alco Models B-11 box on eBay sometime. I guess my other option is to use one of the Reboxx boxes.
I’d forgotten about the NYC/NKP 0-6-0 that Alco produced.
You’ll probably be very happy with it. Those classes were never produced by anybody else, so there is no other version available from any other producer.
Poking around the Internet last night I found one of them in Troy, NY(?); it was a static display in front of a building. A recent photo (within the past year or two) showed the after-math from a moron who lost control of his vehicle and smashed into it. [8o|] The tender looked like it took the worst of it.
