Greetings from snow covered Denmark. I am building my first proper layout and I am in the need of some guidance. After a lot of trail and error on paper I now come to you silver-haired experts (some of you may not be, but I gladly take advice from you aswell)
Having read other’s in need I’ve done my home work. The space I’ve been allocated is 3,5m by 2,5m and there are no special considerations. What I’ve been trying to do is a folded “dog-bone with a branch line running on top”. The theme is Germany in the 1990’s, with the Rhiengold express running on the brachline. It is really a combination of the 1960s and 1990s.
Märklin HO skale.
Druthers:
4 Track station
A long double track main straight (maybe running over the branchline - some sort of bridge)
a train reversal - two would be even better (can be hidden)
Minimum curve 360mm
I have:
3 passenger trains and a freight train. I would be glad if they all could run at the same time
expansion possibilities.
It is not important, but I would be glad if you could provide measurements in the metric system
Welcome to the forums from not as snowy as usual Vermont. Our ski areas could use more and actually we could use more on the ground to insulate foundations, water lines, etc, but I don’t mind not having it on the roads. A good amount of the silver hair has bleached out or disappeared. Wisdom for designing track plans not a strong point, but will try to ask some questions that will fuel others to give you some answers.
As I understand it your available space is 3.5mx2.5m (aproximately 11’x8’). If my calculations are anywhere near correct, it appears that you are planning very sharp curves if by 360mm (about 14") you mean 360mm radius. You say there aren’t any conciderations to be made so doors, windows, other things that have to have some access aren’t in the way? Could you explain what you mean by a branchline “running on top?” Were you thinking of an around the room shelf? Since you are thinking of a dogbone or reversing loops, I assume you want to be able to have continuous running, at least as a possibility. A four track station will take conciderable space. Are you thinking of mostly an urban layout, some country side where the branchline goes? How long a train do you plan run?
Sorry I don’t have more answers, but hopefully if you can give a little more information on what you want to do, someone else will chime in with an answer or two.
Greetings from snowy Michigan, USA. First and foremost, do you own the home? Are there restrictions as to altering the heating, plumbing, electrical outlets, or lighting? Are there obstructions, such as closets, book cases, pillars, vents, etc. My own 7.5m x 7.5 m garage loft layout, (with an inside stairway) was built to be dedicated to my around the room HO layout. I can drill holes in the floor,(if necessary). I can screw the bench work to the floor. I installed a suspended ceiling, (from the open cross rafters), with lighting consisting of 10 double tube shop lights. I can run wiring above the suspended ceiling, or under the floor joists. I can increase the available wattage, (as needed), with new circuits. My background paneling is screwed to the studs (of the insulated room.) These are things that are difficult, (if not impossible), in rooms of a home, (even if you own the home). Construction of bench work and scenery, is messy. The floor gets scratched and spotted with plaster and paint. Let’s consider your layout possibilities. You say that you have 2.5m x 3.5m “allocated” to your layout. does this imply that other parts of the room are allocated to other uses, (such as laundry, work bench, game tables, etc.) ? Do you have aisle access, ( to the 2.5m x 3.5m. proposed layout), from one side, two sides, three sides, or all around. Remember that comfortable reach is about 2/3m. Either a peninsula, or island layout would be your best bet. In order to get the most track, and scenes in this space, it would probably be best to place your “folded dog-bone” in an S shape, with a Z shaped divider to provide possible background scenes on both sides. You mention one or two “train reversals”. This implies that you are going to use DCC, with auto-reverse modules. Is the dog-bone to be constructed with single or double tracks? How many spurs to industries do you plan to include. Running all four trains at the same time, on a layout of this size, is not very practical. You realize that a mode
Your math seems to be right - 2.54 centimeters or 25.4 millimeters is one inch. So 250 cm (2.5 m) equals about 100 inches (98 inches if the measurement is fairly precise instead of just a rough estimate), while 350 cm (3.5 m) equals about 40" more, or if it is a precise measure - 137". Ie just a tad more than 8 feet x 11 1/3 feet.
The 14.2" (36 cm) radius is normal for German Märklin model trains - they use couplers, trucks and underside detailing in such a way that they can do very (by American standards) sharp curves - for American style layouts 18" is pretty much considered minimum radius for standard layouts (ie not using especially short engines and cars, and not modifying trucks, couplers or the underside of the cars).
Märklin also traditionally have used AC low voltage power on the tracks (with one side of the circuit being small studs down the center of the track, and the other side of the circuit going to both rails - with engine pickup being wheels for one side of the circuit and a s
Most of the folks in here model US prototype, which is a lot different in terms of design and operation than what we usually do in good old Europe. Don´t be too disappointed if you do not get the answers you are looking for.
Marklin-Magazin has a web page, where you can download some track plan ideas. Maybe there is one , which could be adapted for your needs.
Here is a link to this page!(Just click on the word “link”).
Thank you very much for all the answers. I’ve attached a drawing of the room (black) with the allocated space in red. The layout will be in my dads basement - there is about 2,8m to the ceiling. The pipe is running all the way from floor to ceiling. For the trains my idear was to run 2 passenger trains with 3 coaches each (total lenght just about 1m). These two should run in opposite direction. The steam engine with the TEE Rheingold should (hopefully) run on the branchline. Then there is the freight train which will do some switching before running to the next place. This is my overall idear. I am thinking about some sort of continuous operation, but with some manual switching.
What I meant by “on top” is simply when looking at the trackplan the branchline run above the main straight. (paradestrecke) About the running I had in mind for a semi-analoge-automation (ie. a train run over a contact point and a signal switches) With regards to the turning radii I’ve run serveral trains on the 360mm(14,2") and they run fine and this will also be for the inner circle - outer will be 424,8mm
Am I reaching for something not possible? is a small staging possible in stead of the train reversal? as for the layout it is not essential it is a folded dogbone.
you will have to post your drawing in Photobucket first and then copy/paste it into your posting here.
The Rheingold ran from Amsterdam or Hoek to Basel, a very luxurious train and mainline only. And not just a mainline, a very very much mainline. (Like the NE-corridor in the USA)
My Rheingold package came with 5 coaches, but should have had at least three more.
Your tight radii are made for and should be used by branch-line equipment. Anything longer then 18 cm is looking weird. And I am still very modest. A 1:3 ratio is advised for the visible part of your empire; so 12 cm would be the max according to this norm. The 55 cm radius is a better choice, gives you a 1:2 ratio.
Are you still into playing with trains or more into modelling a railroad?
I like the operational aspect as much as I hopefully will enjoy building. The coaches are 24cm long. They look “ok” on the 42cm radii, but a little more odd on the 36cm I will admit. I could then use 550mm and 485mm(not a Märklin standart) for the main turn and then the 360 and 420 for hidden turns - would that work?
I understand that the Rheingold was running on a main line, but my idea was simply to get two types of operations into one layout. Is that impossible? I’ll try to get a bit better picture of the room.
We are all anxious to see the diagram of the total room and the proposed layout. Let me expand on the explanation, provided by Paulus Jas. Establish an Album devotedto Model Railroad, with Photobucket, and give a name to the photo that you plan to Post in Trains.com Forums. The photo in the Photobucket album, will have four options below. choose the IMG option to click on, Momentarily, the word “Copied” will appear. with my thumbnail version of My Albums, there is a small box and rectangle below the photo. I click on both, and then click on Edit (upper left) I scroll down to “Copy” and click on it. I then return to the Trains.com/forums thread, click on “Reply” and type in any text. If you then click on ctrlV, the lengthy code of the photo will appear. You can always Edit or Delete text or photo. Finally, you scroll down to Post, and click on it, The text and reduced photo will soon appear at the end of the Thread. Bob Hahn
Hi Martin, After enlarging the Marklin Pan A, I find that it is “brilliant.”! It is basically an overpass-underpass layout, in which the two tracks that are across the bottom right, are on the lower level. They enter tunnels on the lower right side and pass under the road and under the two tracks that form a curve on the right end. These tracks then reappear as they come out of the double tunnel to merge into a single track, that crosses the two roads on the top. The single track, then enters a tunnel on the upper left and passes under the roadway on the left, before reemerging from the tunnel on the left… The single track then becomes a double left turnout. The top branch and the topmost proceeds as a spur to the station… I would delete the cross-over. The other branch passes under the upper set of tracks approaching from the lower left. The other pair of parallel tracks on the lower center, merge and then curve up to pass under the sets of tracks above. The single track then forms a counter-clockwise loop that passes under the road to then merge with the track at the top, to form a reverse loop . The upper level set of tracks, starts at the lower left curve, which enters a tunnel on the far left side, and passes under the road and is hidden all the way across the top, from left to right. The single track then becomes a turnout, as it enters a tunnel on the upper right. The pair of tracks , then are hidden until the emerge from the tunnel (under the trees), and form a cross-over, before passing under the roadway on the far right. They then join up with the yard tracks through ladder turnouts. Some turnouts may have to be eliminated, but this would be a really terrific operational Island layout. The upper and lower levels might be joined through a runaround track which changes levels, across the top. Bob Hahn [URL=http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w78/ROBTAHahn/?action=view¤t=OveerpassRailroads001.jpg][IMG]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w78/ROBTAHahn/th_OveerpassRailro
Ulrich. I found this in the link as well and I like the idea for the main station and it is sort of what I am after. I do think there is a little too much under the layout.
Bob. I see what you mean, but the drawing is not compleatly to scale. The horizontal red line sould be out to 2m (possibly extended to to 2,5m) The room it self is 6x4m. The shape of the layout is not the most important. (a C or E shape should work)
Is my overall plan nuts? Can’t it be done? Maybe someone can inspire me a little [8D]
As I mentioned earlier - I think you will have far better odds of finding inspiration for an European style Märklin layout in a German or European model railroading forum - it is quite a bit off the beaten track for this forum, which is mostly about American model railroading.
But sure - you can fit quite a bit of model railroading into 2.5 x 3.5 meters. This is what I have squeezed into 2.0 x 3.5 meters on my layout (most of the RR cars in the track plan below are American 40-foot/12 meter cars - all shelves are 25"/63cm or less deep).
So you can easily fit one station and staging into 2.5 x 3.5 meters,at least if you build your layout donut style (big hole in the middle for the operator) - allows wider curves and scenes that are well separated visually.
Not so sure I would have wanted to try a double track mainline plus a branch line running passenger trains that want 40"/101 cm) radius curves. In H0 scale, with Märklin sectional track. Mainline curves in my plan above is in the range 20-22".
If you want passenger trains and longish runs, I’d recommend trying Z scale (1:220) or N scale (1:160) instead of H0 scale. And consider using flextrack instead of sectional track, so you can make curves any radius that will fit your room, instead of being limited to a few curve radii.
Or focus on modeling just the station, with the rest of the layout being staging for trains that will run through the station area according to a time plan or something.
I looked at the Marklin website and found they are producing a lot of curved tracks. Beside the 36 and 42 cm radii you can also buy R3 (51,6 cm), R4 (58 cm) and R5(64,4 cm). But you will have your LHS-owner to order these from the factory.
BTW my Rheingold coaches are 25,5 cm long.
Do you mean by two types of operation steam and electric?
I’ve been digging a little deeper and found out that there is a distinct difference bewteen model railroading in old europe and the US.
I’ve attached a poor drawing of my thoughts and where things could be heading. For the record I have no experience with these computer programs that I see a lot of you guys use very skillfully.
Now as you can see I’ve opted for the grand station which is sort of terminus; as the tracks contenue under the city and further below to staging. I’ve also, tried, to draw a main line that goes on the edge of the layout giving me “plenty” of space in the middle for industies and maybe some shunting ops. Also no longer pressent is the “Rheingold line” as there just is not enough space. Although the train it self will be pressent.
EDIT: Here is what I’ve achived with 30min of time in Wintrack9
Here is a what a brief search elsewhere turned up for me:
I went to http://www.google.com and entered the search terms “Märklin 4-track station” (without the quotes). First hit I got was this place: http://plutoodie.com/ModelTrains/ , which may give you a tip about some possible track configurations for a station.
I know that you probably all ready know, but you can have a lot more if you were to switch to N-scale for the area that you have allocated for your layout.
I’ve been looking at some websides too, you were talking about different radii and maybe you are thinking flextrack. All is in the Marklin catlogue. Even lower angled switches.
The space you have is asking for a G-type or Kamm- oder Zungenform. A much more interesting footprint can be chosen for your layout.
The question is what you would like to do and what is your budget. Spending 2000 dollars on just track and tables is done quickly, by you or your dad also?
Plan B:
