I really want to start a 4’X8’ HO gauge layout in my basement. I have purchased wood to make the benchwork, 4’x8’ 1/4" plywood, and 1" pink foam. I have two books for beginners (the Basic Model Railroad Track Plans and another by Atlas) My big problem is following the track plans. I get the shopping list with exactly what track to buy, but not all of the track plans tell you what track to put where. Especially when there are both 18" and 22" curves on the same layout.
Not only the problem with following the layouts in the book but also, I don’t really like any of the layouts listed.
Here is what I would like. I would like a loop that I could run longer Dash 8 and Dash 9 locomotives on (The mainline) and a few spurs to deliver freight to industries and consumers with a smaller Switcher. But I would also like a yard to use to classify freight and/or staging for other rolling stock. I would like a passing siding to put a second locomotive on or if at all possible a second loop. Can anyone help me?
lava96,
First off: [#welcome] to the forum! Good to have you aboard! [:)]
I totally agree with you. Most of the layout plans that I see in books I don’t like. And they usually try to squeeze too much track into a perscribed area, which makes them look both cluttered and contrived.
If you are going to be running 6-axle locomotives on your layout, I’d encourage you to run as large a curved track as possible. (With a 4 x 8, that would be 22") You’ll also want/need longer turnouts so that the longer locomotives don’t bind up coming through them. Shorter 4-axle locomotives are happy with either 18" or 22" curves and #4 turnouts.
lava96, with the size layout you want to run, smaller both runs and looks better. Keep you rolling stock lengths 50’ or less. Longer may work but it sure won’t look good doing it. If you will be running more modern stuff, the shorter cars are still around and still look good.
Poke around the Internet and do a search on HO layout plans to see what you can find. The Atlas web site will have 36 layouts to view online - probably a number that are already in that Atlas book you have. The NMRA (National Model Railroaders Association) web site has some good layout links that may also give you some good ideas:
http://www.cwrr.com/nmra/Layout-HO.html
As well, search around on the NMRA site.
They have a beginner’s layout project that starts with a 4 x 8…
…then expands from there.
From the picture, I looks like they are running 18" curves.
lava96, you can see pictures of my 4 x 8 layout in the link at the bottom of this post. I’m still in the “process”. I have all 22" radius curves, with only a small, 3-piece section of 18" radius curve on one side and 22" radius curves going into and
Thank you very much. I wi***he layout books didn’t include scenery and the like, just give me a track plan and good details on how to lay it!
Thanks for the tip on the curves. I tried running my locomotives on 18" and 2 of them just derail all of the time (amazingly 1 makes it completely fine). I am looking to do 22" curves on a continuous loop for the mainline with a passing siding (or maybe a second loop on a second tier). I figure the 6 axle locos will never enter into the yard or the spurs. Maybe some type of track for the locomotives to drop off the rolling stock, then the switcher can come out and pick them up. I could then park the big loco in an engine house or shed or somehting while delivering the freight or spliting up the cars. Then the switcher can make up a train for the big locomotive to pick back up later on. I have 3 6 axle locomotives so I would mabe run 2 trains on the main line and have one in staging or inside an engine house.
Welcome to the group lava.
First bit of advice, don’t be afraid to ask questions.
A 4x8 sheet of plywood is a great way to start off.
Agreed that 22" curves are a minimum to start off with. I had a couple of 18" curves on my layout & they never posed a problem but I ended up removing them to install 22" curves just to be safe.
I run a lot of 6 axle power. AC4400’s, SD40’s, 50’s & 60’s. # 4 switches have not been a problem with these even at full throttle. If you intend on the bigger locomotives using these switches, just take it slow & you shouldn’t have a problem.
I’m assuming that you are using sectional track?
If so, what I would do is just place the track & switches in place before spiking it into place just to see if the track plan will fit. If it doesn’t, change it until you find a plan that will work for you.
Jog some ideas down on paper, check over different plans in Model RR magazine & the WWW. You should be able to come up with something that will work on a 4x8 layout.
Gordn
In the Atlas books if a curved section is not labled it is an 18" radius, if a straight section is not labled it is a 9" straight.
Yes, the most common model railroading problem. These items are more requirements than can easily fit onto a 4x8 without making it look like solid track, especailly with something as large as a Dash-9.
The first I thought of with those requirements was, Atlas 10025.
http://www.atlasrr.com/Code100web/pages/10025.htm
BUT, it only has 22" curves on one side. The round house could be changed into a modern loco shed or more industry.
Or perhaps this one we just sort of worked out for SMassy
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=56795
might be of some inspiration.
Wow I really like the one by SMassy
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=56795
My only problem is how do you figure out what track he is using on his layout? I know he mentioned 22" curves but how about the rest of the stuff? Are the turnouts #4 and what is the inner curve? I assume it is 18" which would be perfect for what I want. I can imagine my Dash 9’s dropping off the train in the yard and then my switcher breaking it up (somehow). I don’t know if the yard would be big enough though (not enough room to move around) Any ideas how that could be improved on?
I don’t really want a coal mine in mine but I can make that somehitng different, but I love the raised up city idea. That gives you 3 tunnel portals in each direction and my 3 year old LOVES tunnels. Maybe I can put a yard in the area he has his coal mine.
I like this as a start, but I have a long way to go.
Welcome to the Forum Lava!
Who makes the locos you are having problems with? I have an Atlas Dash 8-40C that negotiates 18" radius on my “test” track with no problems as well as a Genesis SD-70. I also have an Atlas Dash 8-40B that is 4 axle and just a tad shorter than the 40C, works like a champ.
I see by your signature pic, you may be a Conrail fan. They ran the Dash 8-40B until they were absorbed by NS and CSX. All of their 40B’s went to NS and some still wear their Conrail paint with NS patches. Mine was bought undecorated and painted such a way. Oops, got off on a different subject, sorry.
Glenn
lava96,
I like the plan! [:)] The turnouts are #6s. [tup] The outside main loop has curves that have to be 22" radius but are made with flex-trrack - i.e. flexible track that comes in 36" lengths. (Hence, why the curves look like one solid piece of track.) Since the track flexes, you can bend it into radiuses that you can’t ordinarily get using sectional track. The inside loop probably has 18" radius curves - also made with flex-track.
lava96, the one thing to be aware of is that this layout has what’s called a “reverse loop”, or a loop that loops back onto it self. Reverse loops have to be insulated and the polarity of the track “reversed” so that the locoomotive won’t short out on the return trip.
Let me see if I can explain it more clearly to you. Looking at the layout:
Let’s say you start your locomotive at the bottom of the inside loop and travel CCW. For clarity, we’ll designate that the outside rail will be positive (+) and the inside rail, negatve (-). As you travel up and around the curved section you make your way to the top of the inside loop, just before the turnout.
Okay. Now say that you throw the switch to your turnout so that your locomotive takes the track to the left, into the reverse loop, past the engine house and onto the next turnout. If you follow with your eye, you can see that you will be “reversing” your direction as you travel through the second turnout. Now you’ll be going around the inside loop in a CW rotation, rather than a CCW rotation.
Here’s where the problem lies. Remember the we designated that the outside rail was positive (+), and the inside rail, negative (-). If you follow the outside curve along the same track that your locomotive traveled, through the first and second turnout, your outside rail (+) has now become connected or associated to the inside rail (-) going in the CW rotation. Wh
You realize the one you showed wasn’t the final version. This one was.
The “stuff” factory spur was reversed so there would be some facing point switching.
Yes, the outside loop is 22" and the inside is 18". Most of them look like #4s but I see at least one wye in there. He was using a CAD system so was not really dealing with sectional pieces. If you plan on doing that, it would take a bit of experimenting or re-drawing it into something like Atlas “Right Track” or similar, to figure out the exact pieces needed.
Well, for not being enough space this IS a 4x8. With two loops there is going to be very little one can to to make the yard bigger. One would need to put the yard into the center of the loop as the first Atlas I pointed out or to get the biggest possible yard one would need to put the yard tracks on the outside of the loop as this one:
But the biggest curve one can then fit is 18" radius.
Absolutely, when looking at any track plan, just look at the track layout not necessarily what the industry siding are marked. The exact same plan could be used for an eastern heavy industrial area or a midwestern
OK…first to answer a question that phatpony asked. I have all Athearn Genesis locomotives. The 2 that keep coming off on me are SD70 MAC’s. The Dash 8 is just a plain Athearn locomotive (not Genesis) and it has no trouble making it around. I think my problem is the track I am currently using. I have Bachman EZ Track set up temporarily. I don’t like it much at all and when I get my final layout done I am going to use Atlas code 100 track. I have the Bachman stuff set up just as a loop right now, the locomotives make it around 3 of the 4 corners okay, but the 4th corner has a terminal rerailer curve section that screws it up and it runs off to the outside EVERY time!
As far as the reversing section is concerned I am still a bit confused. I did purchase the book on wiring and there is a good section on reversing sections, but I didn’t really read it yet because I haven’t had to deal with one yet. Are you saying the entire section that runs from the top right to the bottom left has to be insulated? I am assuming that when the train comes around CCW and takes the turnout to the reversing section the polarity is still (+) on the right wheels, until it makes it to the bottom when it comes upon the next turnout leading back to the loop section. Let me see if I have this right. The train goes into the reversing section, since that area is isolated I can then switch the polarity of the rest of the loop so when the locomotive crosses back on to the loop the inside rail becomes (+) and then everything will be fine. I am guessing that to reverse again I would have to back through the reversing section and throw the switch to reverse the polarity again.
I think I understand this now…it makes perfect sense, I just don’t know exactly what switches to use and exactly where to place the insulated rail joiners.
OK, now to Texas Zepher:
1."For your requirements, I would switch the yard ladder so the lead is the inside loop rather than the outside loop. That would allow the “road” eng
there is a website called "mike’s small trackplan page " thought it has some good small plans like you are describling
good luck
ray
There are 2 books that I would really recoment that you read before you start building your pike, Realistic model railroad operation and Realistic model railroad design.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0890244189/ref=pd_bxgy_text_b/002-0246364-6908017?_encoding=UTF8
also take a good hard look at the space you have, can you move some stuff? throw away some old junk?reorganize? you may have room for 2 4x8’s or an around the walls layout with nice sweeping curves.dream it ,plan it ,build it!
P.S. welcome to the forum[#welcome]
bill
lava96,
[#welcome] to the forums.
Thank you for taking interest in my layout. I cant take full credit for it tho because alot of the people here helping you are the ones that helped me make it what it is.
The outer loop is my main line, it has 22" radius with #4 turnouts.
The inner loop it for my shortline and has 18" radius, again #4 turnouts. In fact all the turnouts on the entire layout are #4 and I have one Mk3 wye going to the power plant and warehouse.
The reversing loop takes a little more complex wiring but I have other versions of the layout that did not have that loop and you can feel free to use any of the variations you want for your own.
For the reversing loop just use the plastic rail joiners in the center section and if you use DCC or DC find a autoreversing module and wire that into the center section as per the modules instructions.
As others have said above I have set up my track plans for Flex track but you can easily use sectional track in place of the flex for the curves but you would need to use a little flextrack or modify some of the straight pieces in some areas.
The Athearn SD70MACs I own are Genisis models and run on the 18" raduis curves just fine BUT the couplers dont deflect enough and they will throw the first car behind the loco off the tracks. They handle 22" just fine tho. As for the loco derailing itself I found that the truck sideframes sometimes cause this on Athearn locos (not just the Genisis models). You have to make sure that the wheels have alot of side play to handle the corners so if the sideframe is pushed in too far the wheels will not be able to move enough and cause the loco to “walk” over the rails. Use a small screw driver and gent
That’s it in a nut shell. lava, you actually have it right. I got it backwards because, as you put it, the rest of the track loop polarity switches as the locomotive is in the reversing loop. I wrote it the other way around. Sorry. [:(]
Yes, if I failed to state it, the reversing loop would have to be insulated, as well as the inside loop from the outside loop. And - yes - in order to turn around, you’ll have to back through the reversing loop. Your wiring book will make it much clearer with diagrams than I tried explaining it without.
lava, if you will be running DC, you’d have the inside loop as a separate and isolated block and the outside loop as a separate block, as well.
[quote]
QUOTE:
Oh, almost forgot. Someone asked if I am a Conrail fan. Yes!
If it’s possible for you, consider a 5’ x 8’ benchwork. In that way you can built a larger radius like 24" .
I suggest you to try to find a copy of “MODEL RAILROAD PLANNING 1999” from Kalmbach. At page 32 you have a layout desing for you’re need. A broader radius and turnout and also a possibility for switching. The construction seem simple to achieve and also i think is a good starting point for a beginner.
I hope you enjoy it!
You are all such wonderful help. Thank you all very much!
rigolo: do you know where to get the book you mentioned? And how would I make 5’ by 8’? If that sounds like a dumb question, sorry. I have a 4’ by 8’ now. Can I just add a 1’ by 8’ across the top or something. Here is the problem. Do I need to buy another 4’ by 8’ sheet of plywood? That stuff is expensive and it seems like a lot for only 1’. Would using 24" curves make that much of a difference? I don’t know if that would be easy or worth it. What do you all think?
tstage: thanks for the help with the reversing wiring. I just looked at the chapter in the wiring book and I think I got it. It seems to be pretty easy, just something I would need to remember to do when running the train.
SMassey: Thanks so much for the inspiration. You have ALMOST exactly what I have wanted. I really am excited to get started. I guess I will pick up all the #4 turnouts and some 18" curves to get started. I am still waiting for Texas Zepher’s replay on the 3 suggestions he made. I am interested to see what he means by straightening the loading dock and putting industries in the corners. I think I know what he meant by adding to the corners, but I don’t know exactly how to fit that in.
Could you tell me how many turnouts I would need to buy, how many straights, and where is the wye at?
Texas Zepher: Could you reply to my 3 questions I asked in my last reply? Thank you so much for your help.
***Anyone want to come to NJ and help me build this? I can pay!!
Oh, and the comment on my dad. I think he may come around. I just had him over my house today and he gave my son 2 O gauge rain sets. Apparently Conrail gave him 4 complete sets over the last few years. So he came and gave my son 2 and I guess his grandaughter (my niece) is getting the other 2. Now as soon as I get started on my HO layout, I have to figure a way to run my son’s O gauge setup around his room on a shelf system. I guess that will
Maybe, but I have three SD70’s. Because of warped truck frame plastic none of them track well, even on 36" curves.
Hmmm hard to explain in words. The ladder is the set of trunouts that branch off to make the yard. The lead is the track behind the ladder which the train has to use in order to work the yard. This is also called the drill track (because the switch engine goes back and forth and back and forth on it).
I’ve drawn up a version with the ladder reversed.
As usual click to enlarge
I don’t think so, unless you resort to something like in the Atlas plan. Then neither is there enough room to put in a yard ladder by pass to get the locos to the engine house. I think they will have to go through the yard or they could go all the way around (counter clockwise), cross over to the center track, then around the center loop on the right into the engine house. Have you considered N-scale? I think all this would easi
Want to come and help you? yes, I love doing stuff like that. Want to come to NJ? Well ummm. I used to work in Piscataway, it wasn’t my most favorite of places. Where are you? I think it might just seem overwhelming right now. It will seem easier after you get into it a little more. But If you are serious, there is probably someone closer than me, but if not e-mail me directly and we can talk. I have like 7 weeks of vacation to burn. I had been planning a trip to WV to photograph the old Norfolk and Western right of ways this summer.
“Hmmm hard to explain in words. The ladder is the set of trunouts that branch off to make the yard. The lead is the track behind the ladder which the train has to use in order to work the yard. This is also called the drill track (because the switch engine goes back and forth and back and forth on it).
I’ve drawn up a version with the ladder reversed.”
—Ok…I get that now, but your link didn’t work and I can’t really imagine how to swicth it around. In the original the ladder comes off the right side of the drill. That gives me 2 tracks. Could I throw a third track off the left of the drill? I imagine it but I don’t know how to try it.
“I don’t think so, unless you resort to something like in the Atlas plan. Then neither is there enough room to put in a yard ladder by pass to get the locos to the engine house. I think they will have to go through the yard or they could go all the way around (counter clockwise), cross over to the center track, then around the center loop on the right into the engine house. Have you considered N-scale? I think all this would easily fit using N.”
—No…I will not swicth to N. I have too much invested in HO already. 3 X $100+ locomotives, over $200 in rolling stock and a switcher that cost about $50.
I guess I will have to live with the smaller yard like in SMassey’s. I can store some rolling stock in the spurs and stuff. I wish I could squeeze a passing siding in.
I just had another idea. Maybe a smalle extension built on to the top right corner for a bigger yard. Can someone figure a way to connect the inner loop to an extension added to one of the corners? The top right would be the best. I could put the mainline engine shed in between the 2 loops where the yard is now, and then add a yard off the layout on its own extension piece. Maybe 2’ by 4’ or something. Just a thought. But I would want to connect that yard to the inner loop and provide some cross over on the mainline.
Ok…now I have about 20
I am no where near that scummy North Jersey. I am in South Jersey, in a suburb of Philadelphia. Did you ever hear of Camden. I am right outside of Camden, about 15 mins away. Look up Pomonia yard Camden. Pomonia is one of the few remaining working “Hump yards” in America. If you want something cool to photograph, Pomonia is good. I am a Paramedic in Camden so I can usually get around and get in the yard without anyone throwing me out. I figure I can talk my dad into going there with me and getting some good pictures now that he is retired. I suggest getting to see the “Hump” before it is gone. God only knows what Shared Assets has in store for good old Pomonia yard.