It appears from photographs posted here on the forum as well as published in the hobby press that the standard procedure for building up contour is to glue foam strips above a base of a solid sheet of this foam. It appears as if this is also the procedure for raising track profile.
I have always been a Hydrocal hardshell advocate; over the years my layouts have had few tunnels and I can only recall one or two occasions where I suffered an in-tunnel derailment. When I pull my crumpled newspaper out from under my hardshell I have an open area into which I can inject my trusty 0-5-0 switcher for rerailing purposes. Am I missing something? but with a solid base sheet of this foam how, pray tell, do you’uns rerail errant equipment?
I will side with you regarding your dislike for stacking foam. I don’t like that method because no matter how hard the users try, the horizontal seams in the layers of foam are visible and therefore distracting to the overall appearance of the scenery.
I used the cardboard strip method to create the underlying structure for my scenery; once formed it was covered in plaster cloth to form the hardshell. I can reach to the top of the ‘mountain’ from the inside of the tunnel if needed.
Actually, RT, I’m with you. I make my tunnels out of foamcore painted black on the inside, with balled newspaper and hardshell over the top. The tunnel is in the corner and against the backdrop, so it doesn’t have a back. Disconnect the backdrop panel, reach in, grab derailed equipment, rerail or remove.
If your tunnel’s in the middle of the layout, simply attach one wall of the tunnel with masking tape instead of glue, and make the scenery on top removable.
Much of my layout is a subway tunnel, which is on the first base layer of foam. The tracks above it sit on a second layer, and between the two I generally have scraps of 1x2 (laid flat) to boost the separation. Here’s a shot of one end of the layout:
After replacing the liftoff sections, it looks more like a standard train layout:
There are 5 liftoffs in this picture, and 2 others elsewhere on the layout. Each liftoff is small, and most are made of foam. (2 are 1/4-inch foamboard, and one is masonite. I was experimenting.)
The foam is easy to work with. I coat it with Gypsolite, and bridge gaps with plaster cloth. Besides that, I had a lot of small foam chunks to work with, so it was just a handy material for terraforming.
I have always made my tunnels with access through the sides or from the top through a lift out/off sections. Not only does one need to get to derailed equipment but for maintenance.
I’ve never had a problem blending layers of foam. I stack and glue the foam, then shape it with either a knife or a hot wire foam cutter. Next I cover it with a layer of sculpt-a-mold then scenery assorted stuff.
They don’t when you bury them with a layer of Sculptimold…[:-^]
I agree about liking hard shell better. I did use foam to do my tunnel liner and entrance just so I had some support for my plaster portal. It’s all open inside for access though. (got to give the spiders and mice somewhere to live.[:D])
This thread is plumb scary. The truth of foam is laid bare for all to read.
I like mountains. I’ve about 25 linear feet of them most with tunnels and all open inside. Originally I started using aluminum screenwire with hydrocal, and it just took too many coats or the use of paper towels in the mix, which makes it messy. Now I use Woodland scenics cloth which is SO EASY to use. Now I must tell you that I DO USE FOAM as a profile board upon which I fasten the screen wire to. Originally I used drywall screws to hold the screen wire until the plaster dries, but now I actually cut the profile out of lightweight foam, then trace scraps of 3/4 plywood with the shape about 2 inches wide and glue and screw it to the fram so I have something to staple the foam to.
I’ve also used foam as a flat base for scenery only because it is lightweight.
Stacked foam typically looks like stacked foam unless they put plaster cloth or ALOT of sculptamold on top of it.
I do want to give credit to those very talented people who can and do make nice looking layouts with foam and little or no plaster, but for every one I see that is nice, there are 8-10 that look like stacked foam or worse.
I wouldn’t say foam is useless. I use it instead of plywood over my benchwork to get a flat surface, and I layer it up anywhere I want a flat surface (towns, roads, track subroadbed). It’s also useful as a framework for larger scenery pieces.
But I have to agree that, unless you invest A LOT of time and effort, layouts made of scenery materials attached directly to styrofoam landforms don’t look very good.
Recently, I was talking with one of the modellers at a train show. He had a beautiful, Swiss-Alps-themed HO scale layout. His mountains looked terrific and very authentic. At one end of his layout was a mountain under construction (using the wedding cake method of extruded styrofoam construction). I asked him how long it took him to make his scenery. He pointed to the mountain under construction and said, “About 30 hours so far on that piece right there.” Only about the top 1/3 of the mountain had been shaped. 30 hours?!? I can cover an entire 4 x 8 layout in plastercloth and hydrocal in that time, including curing time for the plaster!
CT, I agree with everything you say with the exception of using foam as a roadbed. I do use it for some sidings, but not for the mainline where I want more strength and rigidity.
I chuckled at your 30 hour statement, thinking you are alot farther along than letting the plaster cure. [:O] Hardshell with plaster goes very quickly as you know.
With my layout which is both foam and hardshell, it doesn’t make any difference. All non-visible track is along one edge of the layout, which has a fold-down profile board along its edge. So I just drop the profile board, and everything is easily accessible beneath the mountains.
For the life of me, I cannot understand why some people (not you) are so vehemently opposed to the use of foam and take great delight when someone has problems with it. Nobody is required to use it, and it’s not like they will quit making plywood.
I use a combination of foam and hardshell, and none of my tunnels are lined with foam. And all of my tunnels are on curves (they have to be, most of my straight track is taken up with BRIDGES, LOL!). All my tunnels are hardshell with fairly generous interiors, the tunnel linings just extending past normal vision. AND–I have removable portals on one rather long one. So if there is an occasional derailment–voila! I remove the portal, stick the old 0-5-0 in there and retrieve the errant car or loco, replace the portal and I’m back in business. Actually, four of my major tunnels are backed by access holes, so I’m safe there, too. But I wouldn’t think of lining my tunnels with foam. It sounds like an access nightmare. [:O]
I’ll take your bait. I speak out when foam is misrepresented as the easier, cheaper and faster way to build a model railroad. We have a lot of newbies who read these mis-representations and rushout with expectations large and wind up with layouts that frankly could have looked better, that could have been easier to build and would have cost no more or even less than what they spent.
I’m three years into the hobby myself, past the newbie stage, but I don’t need to misrepresent myself. I publish pictures of what I have and am doing specifically so those who read my words can test my credibility. I’m certainly not a Joe Fugate or a Tony Koester, but I sure do want and try to do work like they do. I find it interesting that many of the most prolific internet writers fall into two camps, those who rarely if ever share good pictures and those who love photoshop.
Foam is faster, easier, and cheeper for some people - I know because I’m one of them. The failure to allow for access to hidden tracks is a design flaw, no matter what material is used.
I’m not opposed to older methods. Personally I prefer hardshell for all my terrain, but I prefer foam for a base and subroadbed, although I sometimes use plywood for subroadbed. It all depends on which suits the individual situation and modeller best.
