what are the pros and cons of covering your deck with cork or extruded foam? and if foam what thickness? 1 inch or 2 inch? thanks David
In my case, the ability to climb on top of the benchwork during and after construction made me (yet again) choose 1/2" ply with cork yard overlayment and cork roadbed. L girder with cookie cutter construction method.
If you don’t need to move the layout later I like solid wood bench tops. I’m a klutz and I knew that I’d eventually make a meteor crater with a knee or fall through a foam topped/thin ply backed bench top on my permanent layout.
Scenicking is often much easier with 2" foam tops. Stream beds can easily and quickly be carved or cut into the foam. Drainage ditches take minutes, etc. You might combine materials/methods. Cork mat in the yards and foam for landscaping/geology.
I don’t like the fumes and toxins inherent in cutting foam with hot knives, etc. So wood and cork for me.
You can combine codes using stepped rail joiners but except for open staging areas I’d rather keep the variables out of tunnels and use Code 83 on the entire mainline run. I’d be interested to hear if others think the Code 100 interspersed with 83 on the main is problematic or advantageous.
By the way as an aside… With my trusty portable db meter, I"ve tested several area layouts that had foam decks and plywood with cork. I’ve always read that foam is quieter than wood/cork, but my meter showed the exact opposite. I was surprised but I think many people think the brittle echoey sound of foam is softer than the drumming sound or growling in ply even though, according to my meter it isn’t always the case.
If sound bothers you or is a concern for someone sleeping in the next room you might consider trying both before deciding-on a 6’ board with flex track on cork and foam to see what sounds good to you (and them?) If you’re in a separate space it won’t matter.
Hope that helps you some.
Jim
I like to conserve materials and it makes me raise an eyebrow when I see some pile up five layers of 2" foam when a couple 1x3 stumps can do the same thing at far less cost and effort.
Half inch ply, half inch Homasote, with cork for the main!
I find it hard to answer a question like this as there can be so many variables in a layout. Size, terrain and all the other things all come in to play. You can use any and all methods on the same layout if you so choose. I know I do.
yes thanks, I think your right… wood and cork, save the foam for the mountains …Thanks David
I used 1" foam over an open grid 12" on center. Not a problem, no deflection or anything. {HO} BUt. I don’t need to "climb on top to work on it.
You COULD use the 1/4, 1/2 inch wood with the foam on top…a combination of the two. If I were to do it again {and I might just at that soon} I would use 1/4 luan over the open grid and the foam for a topper.
The reason? it gives you some “meat” to secure things to underneath, like The undertable switch machine mounts. etc.; but gives you the foam “convenience” feature for scenicking and the like.
BOTH worlds!
have fun and keep on trackin’
[8-|]
As you can see from the photo I used a foam base, my layout is literally built on flat plywood tables with foam on top… because at the time I didn’t know a better way. While it has it’s advantages if I were to do it again I’d use an open grid method because things a much easier to get to when laying track, wiring it and installing turnout controls etc. I would save the extruded foam for things like hills, valleys, mountains, building up river banks etc.
Jarrell
Call me old-fashioned, but I still build the framework and subroadbed per the L-girder design that’s been around since the 60s. I usually use 3/4" ply for the subroadbed, because I like being able to count on the extra strength it provides. I’m usually not crawling around on top, but do like to be able to lean on things without them moving around.
For the scenery base, I use 2" extruded foam mostly, a little 1" where appropriate. My latest construction tends to make these removable liftouts, so some 80% plus of my Cascade Branch is liftouts. The base is closely fitted, then the terrain is built-up using the usual glue-and-skewer methods. Over the top of that goes Sculptamold, which results in a strong liftout that is easy to scenic and holds trees, etc well.
Lots of advanatages to the result. You can add track and wiring later, easy access for maintenance, take the scenery to the workbench instead of leaning over the layout, etc, etc.
More pics of this are in my Cascade Branch thread:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/219241.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=1
Hi,
As you can see, a lot of nice scenicking has been done using foam - no question about it.
But as far as building the layout base/benchwork, the material of choice is 1/2 inch ply or perhaps even a bit thicker. Properly supported, a plywood topped layout will last for decades, and you will have the peace of mind knowing that your track/structures/scenery have a solid base.
Curious, I may have missed this while catching up with this thread, but what size is your layout and is it being built in a designated (i.e. permanent) place within your home/apartment/dwelling? I only ask because foam does have one very distinct advantage over ply or wood…it’s extremely light and portable allowing you to literally pick it up and move it for storage (i.e under a bed) or relocation (dependent upon layout size of course). You can build a 4’X8’ foot layout using 1" or 2" extruded foam nestled in a 1"X3" (or 1"X4") wood frame that is rigid/strong, yet light enough that most grown adults can carry it around by their onesie and with complete ease with a helping hand. Fold away table legs found at Harbor Freight Tools or similar stores provide the support (add extenders to the legs using electrical conduit if you want increased height). Thinking “modular” allows for many layout design possibilities and structure/scenery height isn’t limited (within reason) if you keep the portability factor. I mention all of this as my Son and I are working on a similar design for his new N Scale layout that will fit under his bed.
Anyway, just throwing out other potential options.
Happy modeling and good luck!
Don.
I tried the plywood under the foam “trick”. Won’t do THAT again, unless you have one of those 12" drill bits for the feeders. I had about 6" of foam, so I ended up using a hole saw to “swiss cheese” the plywood. NOW, I just make a 2’x4’ frame with crossmembers on 16" centers. And, since I’m not planning on standing on my layout, I don’t worry about falling through.
I built a small 1x7 foot switching layout using 6" of foam and never again…I was never comfortable with foam on a wooden frame.
Reason?
To my mind I felt it wasn’t solid like wood.
I guess, like a lot of things in this hobby, it’s subjective to the builder and his/her tastes. My Son’s old N Scale layout was 3’X5’ built using a 1"X3" wood frame (similar to a bunk bed type bed frame…coincidently it was actually stored under a bunk bed…[swg]) with a 1" foam top attached to said wood frame and stringers. It survived regular use, take down, store and repeat by him for well over a year before he outgrew it (hence our building his new layout mentioned above). Extruded foam takes getting used to, especially if the majority of your model railroading construction history is with ply or other wood products. But it is surprisingly strong…not like ply/wood obviously…but is a great option for certain layouts, especially space savers/portable/modular type layouts. But, at the end of the day it’s each to their own and as long as one actually builds their layout who cares if they use ply/wood, foam or whatever…at least they are building and hopefully having fun doing it [Y].
Enjoy and happy modeling to all!
Don.
For me the answer is pretty much no to foamboard. About the thickest that can can gotten from the Lowe’s store here is 1". They want $13.48 for a 4x8 sheet. By the time I buy enough to make a good 3" rigid top I could have bought a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" plywood.
Don,That layout was the lightest layout I ever built.
I suppose the real issue was this was my first time using foam as a layout base instead of a board so it could amount to old dog/new trick thing…I like the idea of being able to cut a creek or underpass without much fuss.
BTW and if it matters any that was a N Scale layout.
My layout, a narrow around the walls deal, is two inch foamboard laid on top of 5/8 inch plywood. With 1 by 4 wood stiffener around the edges of the plywood. The plywood is really there to give me something to fasten Tortoises, wire hangers, power strips and stuff under the layout to. Fasteners don’t hold in foam, hence the plywood. I’m planning to cut some rivers into the foam and then bridge them, but haven’t gotten that far yet. I have some relief (hills and humps) but not all that many.
Go with two inch foamboard. To do a river deep enough to justify a real bridge, you have to have some depth. Two inches is only about 15 HO feet, so even if you sink the water level down to the plywood, the bridge will look odd with less than two inch foam.
It’s plenty strong. No sign of flexing under the weight of trains. Being a narrow (only 6 inch wide in some places) layout, there is no need to climb or step on it. The layout is adequately quiet, no plywood drumming action.
I never heard that Code 100 gave better running than Code 83. Unless you have flanges striking the tops of the “spike heads”, Code 83 is just as good as Code 100 a far as derailments are concerned. I wouldn’t bother mixing them.
Mine is all foam and it has stood up to a 350 lb friend who has some issues so he leans on it, still hate that though, but no damage.
Ask him not to do it…
Cheers,
Frank
I have 2" foam on open grid. I have put a 18" x 30" piece of plywood on it and climbed up a few times. I’m 190 Lbs. and there was no sign I was ever up there after I got down.[B]
i glued 1" beaded white foam to 1/4" luan plywood and am hand laying track on top of 1/4" homasote strips.
i use angle brackets to screw the base to the benchwork.
with a little pressure, the foam top can be deformed so that it is no longer flat as a pancake, and as others have said, can be dug out to shape terrain below track level. 1" is ~7 scale feet, easily deep enough for ditches or small streams