I dont mean to be a pain in the donkey but the fire department has track maps of Markham Yard . Also so does the Chicago MPO have maps of all the railroad yards. I have FOIAed them and they have refused saying that the maps belong to the railroads. This info is very valuble for historical purposes and if the info(maps) is in the hands of Goverment agencys is it not in turn in the hands of the Public Domain? I guess the anwser might lie in the Question of “If the fire department has floor plans of major private buildings in there office do they have to show them to you?”. I will now proceed to duck under my desk and wait for the S to fly…[B)]
Unless Illinois has its own version of FOIA, I believe that law only applies to the Feds.
If the railfan base in Chicago is anything like what I’ve seen in my area, there are already maps of most Chicago area railroad facilities on-line someplace.
As for the fire department providing any information - that’s not the business they are in. They have whatever information they have for a specific purpose (preparation for emergencies), and they are not set up to provide it to anyone (ie, duplicating, etc), even if they did have the wherewithall to do so.
Spend a little time with your search engine of choice and you will likely find just about anything you want about all of these facilities. Read TRAINS - there was an excellent picture of Global III there not long ago. In the meantime, don’t get your shorts twisted because someone refused to give you information that is not theirs to give out.
peterson6868,
As Larry stated there is a lot of information available on the web, it just takes time to find. Have you tried terraserve or google sat pix and maps? they are usefull for looking at track arangements.
This seems to more of a legal question. The track maps were provided to the goverment by the railroad. Once they are in the Goverments hands can they have any say to what happens to them after that? The Track Maps may have more infomation then what is avalible in “Open Sources” such as the Historical Society. Now the Question of if a railroad is a Quasi-Goverment agency may be a open one.
But since railroads have goverment like powers including Eminate Domain and Powers of Arrest for its Railroad Police and can be co-opted into the goverment in time of war the question of if there records should be public is answered by the following exceprt-
"Open Records Decision No. 496
June 23, 1988
Re: Whether certain information made confidential by published rules of the
Federal Interstate Commerce Commission is totally excepted from the Open Records
Act, article 6252-17a, V.T.C.S., or from disclosure under the act pursuant to section
3(a)(1). (RQ-1290)
Honorable James E. Nugent
Chairman
William B. Travis Bldg.
Railroad Commission of Texas
P.O. Drawer 12967
Austin, Texas 78711-2967
Dear Chairman Nugent:
You ask about the public availability under the Texas Open Records Act, article
6252-17a, V.T.C.S., of “waybill samples” provided to the Texas Railroad Commission
by the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC). A waybill is a document prepared from
the bill of lading contract or shipper’s instructions about the disposition of freight. 49
C.F.R. § 1244.1(c). It forms the basis for determining freight charges and interline
settlements. Id. The ICC collects a vast amount of data regarding waybills in its
regulatory efforts. See, e.g., 49 U.S.C. § 10,321. Agency rules expressly make public a
great deal of this information. See 52 Fed. Reg. 12,415, 12,416, (to be codified at 49
C.F.R. § 1244.8(b)(5)). Highly sensitive commercial and financial
What perfect timing…Star Wars is getting ready to come out…and I’m feeling a disturbance in the Force…
It seems to me that enabling a rail fan to get a map of a railroad yard is not exactly what the FOIA was established for.
Perhaps instead of wasting everyone’s time trolling, you should simply read the law pertaining to freedom of information in Illinois.
Try searching out the Illinois Freedom of Information Act. I found it in less than five minutes. Oh, and you are correct, it is a legal question. Oh, and one other thing…hint, hint. You’re wrong.
The railroad created the maps. Merely providing them to someone in the government doesn’t change that any more than giving someone a copyrighted work gives them ownership of it.
LC
There might be a view only clause here.
I remember that some of the stuff in the national archives is view only and that is why somebody got busted with confidentual infomation.
I sense something. A presence I’ve not felt since…
That Burrito that went down with the last beer on the Metra to South Bend.
Unfortunately we’re stuck in Episode II here “Attack of the Clones”
Maybe if we flash froze him in carbonite?
Its just a suggestion…
Ed
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Metra doesn’t go to South Bend (That’s a map that is available to you.)
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You don’t have any right to obtain information on industrial facilities when that information was given to public safety agencies so they could protect the lives of railroad workers, their own lives, and the property of the railroad companies and their customers. It was not given to the Homewood Fire Department to assist your railfan activities.
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And yes, I’m confident giving you that information would be very dangerous.
It is unfortunate. I can’t remember a single good quote from either Episode I or II. Except maybe Qui-Gon to Obi-Wan in reference to Anakin in Episode I: “Check his midichlorian count. Is it bigger than mine?” or something like that.
and giving him access to a computer, if not equally as dangerous runs a close second.
Peterson…6868…I think that may have been Detective_Cinderdick’s phone number…
Maybe it is the name of the psycho ward and his room number.
Hmmm 4 digits. It’s obviously his ATM PIN number.
Peterson6868:
Railfanning is NOT nor will it be a legitimate reason under FOIA to ask for mapping of a private industry required to assemble a safety action plan per FRA, OSHA and NFPA guidelines. As a former office engineer for a Class I, I have seen plenty of ludicrous attempts to gain access to these type of files and maps.Quit wasting their time & resources. If you are as callous as many of those before you, you probably want it for free and then want help in interpreting what the map says anyhow. Terraserver or its equivilent is more than adequate. Don’t strain the relationship between a railroad operating department and an emergency services agency especially now.
GO AWAY!
I need to get in the habit of looking UNDER the bridge…
You know we’re in trouble when someone has spent more time looking for methods to obtain information than they have looking for the information - then blame whoever they asked for the information for not providing it for them when they aren’t entitled to it in the first place.
Right on the formula.
Just for the record, under my reading of the FOIA, Greyhounds is the one who got it right as to why he can’t view it. I didn’t read it closely, but the exception to which he refers is clearly listed.
Gabe
P.S. Darn it, I wanted to be the one to say the Metra doesn’t got to South Bend, but the South Shore still does–a jewel of railroading that doesn’t get nearly enough press.