In Svitzerland exists a proof of concept. In a quarry in Biel a eDumper based on a Komatsu HB 605-7 is going uphill empty and downhill loaded regenerating enough brake energy stored in batteries to go uphill without charging.
Source: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1124478_world-s-largest-ev-never-has-to-be-recharged
Regards, Volker
Just for information: Fortescue runs trains up to 240 cars long. Each car weighs 23 metric tonnes (mt) each and can carry 137 mt iron ore.
So an 240 car empty train weighs 5520 mt and carries 32880 mt iron ore. Total train weight without locomotives is 38400 mt.
āNever done beforeā
translates into
āCanāt be done.ā
Volker just provided a reference that it can be done, with lighter vehicles and less efficient drivetrains.
There is enough energy āleft overā from the net regenerative braking to charge intermittent wayside power as well an onboard traction batteries ā provided an efficient way to connect them, such as punctuated electrification catenary, can be provided.
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Have you seen the News Wire article on the AC/Battery powered Chargers?
Jeez I know what Volker said. Obviously it is actually happening and in a tough environment.
I was simply being sarcastic, using the language railroaders in US favor, in essence.
Ares! That was the gravity system I was referencing in a different thread, like solid pumped storage, and able to use surplus from renewables! The blocks turn sideways at the top to maximize the total gravity headā¦
Like pumped storage, though, all the losses take away from the eventual power the gravity fall will generate.
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No. Prove that it can be done reliably so that it has an actual chance for mass adoption. I want to see some game changing technological solutions emerge. Things have been stagnant for far too long.
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There can be no mass introduction of the Fortescue concept, as it is too dependent on geographical and operational conditions - loaded trains downhill and empty trains uphill.
Braking energy is stored in batteries every day in hybrid vehicles and Wabtec has shown that it works in rail operations with its FLXDrive locomotives.
He was being sardonic, like the author of one of those āidea evolutionā chestnuts that begins with everyone calling an inventor crazy and finishes with everyone calling the idea self-evident.
Most of the actual āproblemā expressed in this thread isnāt really with the technology, but with the rhetoric in the press release that called it an āinfinity trainā that satisfied full zero-carbon operation without expensive renewable-electricity diversion.
It is probably instructive to compare the original GE āhybrid locomotiveā design circa 2008 with the current approach as promoted by Iden on one hand (with ātendersā) and GE on the other (with FLXdrive(s) in a dedicated consist with self-powered locomotives).
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I was attempting to be fairly obvious in my sarcasism. Itās a muddy line between that and sardonic.
But isnāt that impossible? Prove it can be done reliably before we do it?
Our yard was supposed to get new fancy slug sets and plug in stations partially funded by the state.
Never happened. Once the letters P S and R started getting thrown around, I never heard about those plans again. Even our current power was planned to be rebuilt. Again never happened.
Suspect similar happened to the up and cn orders.
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This remark isnāt necessarily aimed just at this thread, but of a general nature. It seems like once upon a time technology, of any kind, had to prove itself in real world conditions. Not test conditions done by the company developing the technology.
Now it seems thereās an almost religious faith in newly announced technology. Of course those developing the specific item are going to be rabid supporters, I would expect nothing else. But now, corporations are so quick to believe the salesman. All they need to hear is, āIt will save us money.ā and theyāre sold on it.
I guess itās the way of the future. So many have grown up with technology, although some only after improvements have been made, and they see a steady diet of perfect technology in entertainment that it has to be true in real life.
Specific to this thread, maybe they have it figured out. If it doesnāt quite work out as intended, weāll probably never hear about it. Then again, it doesnāt have to be perfect, just good enough.
Jeff
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But most people want something to be proven without even giving it a chance in real world conditions. Or they think something must be good for every possible conceivable scenario.
Not everything is going to be a success. But certain people donāt even want to try anything new, even if the testing process can result in an improved design.
Not saying to blindly think everything new is going to be a raging success, but purposely not trying anything new isnāt going to work either. Has to be a happy medium, even though it doesnāt fit the āus vs themā attitudes many now have.
At the same time when something fails - donāt reintroduce the exact same thing in 3 years and pretend it is any different and may work.
Keep in mind that hybrid switchers were a colossal failure, battery switchers a dubious thing, hybrid diesel-electric locomotives ānot proceeded withā at GE, and those hybrid truck-motor gensets not in particular favor, all because the designers didnāt really comprehend how railroaders would actually use them to do cost-effective work.
The FLXdrive as a hybrid component with a cab has a use. Battery-electrics in general road service donāt. I expect Fortescue to have at least one suitably-modified diesel-electric in any given āinfinity trainā for a range of (to me) obvious and predictable reasons. If they go for the propaganda value of proceeding immediately to zero-carbon opticsā¦ any surprises will be on them to address. But those surprises wouldnāt fool sensible people observing the testing or implementationā¦ and the wise will be taking notes rather than reacting with mockery and we-told-you-sos.
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I was answering @charlie_hebdo2. People like me will remain skeptics until these new technological developments prove themselves in rigorous testing over a significant amount of time. @jeffhergert1 hit the nail on the head with his āalmost religious faithā remark. There are all of these grand announcement media stories that many times are followed by years of cricket chirping. Something doesnāt add up. Railroads will greenwash all day long with these news stories, but they will not invest capital in new technologies that are not reliable and canāt contribute to actual productivity gains or reductions in operating costs.
From my hunting around on the status of the FLXDrive locoās, it appears that BHPās units have been/will be shipped to Australia sometime in the near future.
Hereās another video of the initial, now ex-Roy Hill, FLXDrive loco:
Had social media existed in 1947 or 1910, I get the feeling there would have been a similar response to diesel locomotives and the new fangled horseless carriages.
Yeah I get it. Some are opposed to anything the color of most tree leaves.
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