Well now, I seem to have installed a bunch of Atlas custom line switches that are less than perfect (I know they are not the premiere brand, but hoped for better).
All locos show a little bump up as they hit the frogs, but today, taking out two Bachmann Spectrum 4-6-0s, I found they literally stuck in the turnouts.
Now I know these are light little locos and yes, if I run them at full speed I can make them hit the frog, and bounce along over it, sometimes, but at proper speed they simply stick the drivers in and come to a stop. But it is the turnout and not the loco to blame, since I see the bump with every loco going through.
I am not familiar with tinkering with turnouts, but I hope there is some standard operating procedure for making these a little more forgiving. I don’t want to go to town with the dremel grinder on the frogs and guard rails until I learn a little more.
What, if anything, is a typical “fix” on these Atlas turnouts and what is the best tool/technique to fix them? Thanks in advance
(I have another gripe with a manufacturing flaw on these turnouts that may post later).
No, you cannot make the turnouts more “forgiving”, but rather you need to gauge your loco’s wheels and tighten-up the gauge the turnout. Your first step is to purchase an NMRA gauge and read on how to use it.
I have a gauge. I know how to use it. The locos are fine. The frogs are screwed.
And I know for a fact that there are often modifications needed to be made to turnouts. Check the archives if you are not sure, Dave. I hoped for some recent info, but I will also go searching the archives for all those posts about my topic.
But could you tell me more precisely what you mean by “tighten-up the gauge the turnout”? That is what I need to know, how to remedy the turnout.
Can you provide the Atlas model numbers you are dealing with? I am getting ready to lay track and will be using the Alas 505 and 506 (#6’s) and I am curious if your issues are with the same model.
The frog is a casting - it should be OK. What might not be in-gauge is the ‘check gauge’ from the frog to the wing rails to the outside stock rail. You mention that the engine gets ‘stuck’ in the frog. It sounds like the total gauge is ‘tight’, or that you engine wheels are gauged wrong… Break out that NMRA gauge again and first check all of the engine wheels to make sure they are not out of spec. Then go after the turnouts. Do other cars/engines have the proble with these turnouts?
I have over 40+ Atlas turnouts on my layout and I do not have any track problem like you describe. The only issue I ever had was that a frog was sitting ‘high’ - I suspect that they pulled it out of the hot mold too fast. A fine mill file resolved that issue.
Thanks I was having a similar problem with my atlas turnouts and like you said a mill file fixed them and I polished them afterwards with some very fine emory cloth. No more bumps going over the frogs. You just can’t beat this forum for the right info. Once again thanks for the great info ,Jim.
Yes, I just went down and rechecked everything. The loco wheel gauges are all fine. Every one of my 23 new Atlas #6 custom line has a high frog.
It is fully 1/32" higher from the frog down to the diverging stock rail and guard rail. In other words each frog is flush with the main stock rail and guard rail and then drops 1/32 to the diverging rail and guard rail. There is a noticeable rise and drop with every loco/car wheel passing, especially when the wheel is following the “thrown” turnout.
Not doubt this is causing the littlest locos like the 4-6-0s to have the most problems. They actually stick alright, whether I drive them through or push them along unpowered with my finger.
Boy with that amount of metal to take down I think that mill file is going to be needed over the rifler files. Probably a fine mill file, but seems almost like a real bastard to me [;)] Hey, my legitimate description of a b* bastard *d file was censored. Cute!
First, it is not all that unusual for the Atlas frogs to be slightly raised, and when they are raised, that usually does not cause any problems because the rise is insignificant.
Second, are you saying that the 4-6-0 wedges in each and every turnout, all 23 of them?
To me it sounds as if the groove between the rail and the frog may be too tight and that may need a little filing to open it up to the proper width rather than filing down the top of the frog.
Are you sure its the drivers wedging in the frog area or is it the coupler hose too low and snagging the frog? It would seem the drivers would climb out of a tight frog. On one of my steamers the foot board on the pilot was too low and snagged on a few things in the track work. Drove me nuts for awhile until I saw it hit one day.
SOmethign else must be wrong here - I have nothign but Atlas turnouts on this and my previous layout, and every time some loco or car had a problem and bumped or stuck in the turnotu at all it was proven that the wheels were out of gauge when checked. Every single time. I could run even larger locos like a 4-8-4 through the turnouts, crossovers and all, at warp speed forwards and backwards with nary a derailment. I was confident enough in my previous layout that while working ot the workbench, with my back to the alyout, I would set up my 4-8-8 (which has sound) and a train and let it roll for backround sounds while working.
Somethign else to check - if you use some sort of under table switch motor like a Tortoise, with a wire throught he throwbar - I noticed on my current layout that Stewart diesels have VERY little clearance underneath the gear cover on the bottom of the trucks and unless I was careful to makre sure I absolutely cut the wire off as short as posisble, they would jam just as you descrive. A peek at the bottom showed the skid marks on the bottom of the trucks. Careful trimming of the actuator wire absolutely flush with the throwbar solved that.
I don’t have a layout set up yet, I’m still in the planning stage, but since I’ve collected about 25 Atlas #283 and 284 #6 Custom Line Mk 3 turnouts, I pulled one and chekked it out against an old Shinohara #6. I did notice running a car through the frog on the Atlas that the wheels do drop into the gap going through the frog. On inspection, it seems the Atlas plastic frog point, not knowing what else to call it, seems first to have a larger gap for the wheel from when it leaves the convergent rail to when the wheel picks up the point. The wheels actually drop into the trough with the wheel actually rolling a short distance on the wheel flange with no contact on the rail head to wheel tread. The Shinohara has this point formed of rail all the way to a sharp point, and when I roll a car through it, the wheel tread bridges this gap from convergent rail to point with almost no drop at all. The wheel tread does not seem to loose contact with metal rail at any time. It doesn’t seem to roll on the flange at all. I don’t know what make of loco the OP is using, but there could be a posibility that there is enough loss of metal to metal contact to affect electrical pickup as it rolls through the plastic frog.
To me, the plastic cast frog just doesn’t seem to provide quite enough length to carry the wheel tread through without dropping a wheel into the trough of the frog.
Makes me wonder how my old Mantua Booster 0-4-0s, old 4-4-0s, or my Emily 4-2-0 will act on these switches in the future. Need to finish my test track which has a snap switch and a #6 operating and check this out.
Looking at the situation, I wonder if a little bit of a stiff epoxy, something like JB Weld, could be used to build the frog up a bit to reduce this gap.
Seems hard for some to believe, but the 4-6-0s locos jam on every #6…both of the locs, and I am right down with a magnifier and beam of light watching this.
This is not a case of anything else snagging or of a slightly raised frog. Every one of the new #6s has a frog that is a full 1/32 higher on the mainline side than the diverging side. I see this on every loco…its just that all the others, from the SD60s to the Decapods can bump their way over more or less smoothly.
I can see the driver of the 4-6-0s hit the frog, but not exactly where it is jamming…but I suspect that it is throwing the loco off to the side and catching the guardrail on the opposite side because of the height discrepancy.
Nevertheless, I will file down one frog tomorrow and see what happens. I planned to file down all 23 anyway.
And yes, these seem like poor quality. I am going to post the other problem with them tomorrow with photos…a real design flaw that I have figured a work around.
Those who can’t believe that it is poor quality control must just have #6 Atlas turnouts from a better batch than I have.
Those are different Atlas turnouts than sold presently. The Atlas Custom Line #6 turnout has a metal black-painted frog. All mine do at least. They are not plastic. Are you sure yours are? But then again, I think you mentioned they are a different (older?) product that mine. As well, I haven’t noticed any problem with the length of the frog. It is significantly longer than the Atlas #4s.
The dropping you noticed may not be within the frog. The dropping I see on mine is from the wheel rolling off the top of the elevated (too high) frog back down to the track. I can feel this drop with my fingernail
But if you reread my post, I do not have trouble with the goofy raised frog turnouts either. Only with these 4-6-0s. I can run every other loco through them, especially the big locos, steamers and all, and at warp speed without derailments. But I do see the raised frog causing a bump on each turnout.
I just can’t get the 4-6-0s to negotiate the #6s through the yard because they are so light steamers that the big drop from the frog to the diverging rail is throwing them cockeyed.
What I see is the wheel actually dropping off the railhead, rollng maybe 1/16" on it’s tread, then climbing back up. The frog casting does not seem noticeably higher than the railhead, nor have I noticed a height difference from one side to the other.
I’ll have to check to see what all I’ve got. I bought mine from about 4 different hobby shops over a period of about 1.5 years, not in a single batch from a single source. Maybe I have a mix of older and later #6s, with different characteristics.
Do what you want, these are your turnouts. But, I think you are making a mistake by filing down the frogs on 23 turnouts. I say this because I don’t think that the height of the frog is the problem. If anything, it may be the narrow with of the passage through the frog, so you might try widening the passage on one turnout with a metal file.
Think about it. All of your other steamers negotiate the turnouts without a problem. So, the 4-6-0 is more likely the problem than the turnouts.
No one disagrees with you that there may be a quality control issue with the turnouts. We all agree that the frog is too high. So, it is actually a design issue, not a quality control issue.
The tone of your replies suggests that you are annoyed with us for disagreeing with you. But you asked for advice and we are offering it to you. We are on your side and anxious to help you solve your problem with the minimum necessary effort.
No, sorry if I seem annoyed. I am annoyed with the turnouts.
Of course I am going to use the file on only one turnout frog as a test.
However, I did note that the other steamers negotiate the turnouts alright, but all show the same climbing up and falling down over the frog (especially noticeable at slow speed) shown by the lightest of the little steamers.
But I will post when the test is done whether I am right or wrong. That is why this forum is such a good learning center.
If you read the review the MRR did, they say it is because the wheels are not at proper gauge, and are too narrow, you need a wheel puller to fix it. That should be all that is you answer.