I am looking at an FP-7 locomotive as a possible addition to my meager roster. Can someone tell me when they were first being used?
wdcrvr
The Georgia RR, Atlanta & West Point, and Western Railway of Alabama converted from Steam to the FP7’s in the 50’s & 60’s. These three railroads which in reality was one ran from Augusta, GA thru Atlanta and terminated in Montgomery, AL. Over the years you would quite often see a latch up of all roads running together and GP7’s & GP9’s included also.
Great modeling opportunities, short trains, and in the 70’s and 80’s the trains were mixed.
The FP7’s were equipped with generators for passenger use but could also be seen quite often pulling freights. The FP7 is a little longer than the F3 & F7
[View:file:///C:/Users/ga.biker/Pictures/Picture Main/Railroad/Prototype/GA RR:550:550]
EMD started producing model F7 in 1949 - the lengthened FP7 came out shortly afterwards(at Rock Island’s request, IIRC). The FP7 was 4’ longer; this gained room for additional water tanks for passenger train heat boilers. The FP7 proved a popular passenger locomotive model and was produced through 1953. In 1954 it was replaced in the EMD catalog by the FP9(similar in appearance). Most if not all FP7’s were purchased for passenger service, but many ran in freight service as the passenger trains they pulled were discontinued in the late 50’s/early 60’s.
Currently both Intermountain and Athearn produce several variations of the FP7 in HO scale.
Jim
Early on steam boilers were generally only put in B units, where the cab would otherwise have gone. This gave you plenty of room for water and the heater. You could put a steam boiler in an A units but they had very little room for water. If there were more than say 3-4 cars or a moderately long trip, a B unit would have to be included in the consist. The FP’s additional water often allowed one engine to run on a train where an A-B set may have been used previously.
Also the FP’s extra water provided more heating capability when needed - a large part of why FP’s were so popular in Canada, where the subzero temps required the heating capability of three or four engines on long trains like CP’s Canadian.
For some roads they were dual purpose in that they would be used on freight and passenger trains. On the Pennsylvania they ran mostly in frieight but filled in on passenger trains all over the system. They were however geared for higher speed. However, groups of them had different maintenance bases. As passenger service dwindeled, the need for dual units was for the most part no longer there except for specials. In the last days of the PRR and in the Penn Central era many, if not all of them, ended up running freight btw Grand Rapids, Michigan and Cincinatti, Ohio. I remember them well. From what I am told, most had their water tanks and steam generators removed or decommisioned.
Two sets of the PRR FP7s were painted in Tuscan Red passenger colors. The others were painted Brunswick Green. Despite what toy train manufacturers might make you believe, these two sets (four FP7 A units and two F7 B units) were the only PRR F units ever painted Tuscan Red. It would be interesting to find out what the story was on these specific units. Perhaps they were not to be dual purpose or the PRR changed their mind?
Indeed, and Athearns RTR F7 is actually a “short FP7” in the true sense and copies a small number of prototypes. A small number of F7’s were outfitted with a steam generator with relatively low water capacity. Rio Grande owned two such F7’s (#5571 and 5574) which operated with steam generators for about 4 or 5 years before the steam generators were removed. I’ve heard the Great Northern or Northern Pacific had a few of these F7’s also.
The GN ordered ABA sets of F’s with no D/B’s, and 600 gallon ‘hatch’ tanks in their place. The NP originally ordered ABB sets of F’s - they did use D/B’s. They later reconfigured to ABA sets, but were a big user of ‘water baggage’ cars to increase the boiler water capacity of the train. All of the above configurations used water pumps to move water between units to the boilers.
Jim
OK here are some numbers and other facts:
Not counting FP’s, only counting regular length F7A’s with boilers - that production number was 82 units out of a total of 2365 units built - less than 4%. BUT, there were only 381 FP7’s built, so, while the number of F7’s with boilers is small compared to F7 totals. As passenger equiped F unit A’s of all types go, regular F7 units accounted for about 18%.
So an Athearn RTR F7 with its steam generator details, is a model of only 82 prototypes - but a Big Boy is only a model of 25 prototypes.
But more importantly this was a railroad by railroad issue and EMD built whatever the customers wanted. Most of the roads who owned FP7’s also bought steam equiped F7 B units to go with them.
Examples:
The Northern Pacific odered their F units with boilers in both A & B units and piped all the water tanks together, and even added special additional water tanks in bagage cars that hooked to the locos by hose while in operation.
The Santa Fe and the Great Northern put boilers
A little more info:
On the earlier F3, a total of 119 A units were built with steam generators out of a total production of 1113 - or over 10%. About half of those 119 units belonged to th B&O.
Only 8 of the 100 F9’s built had steam heat - they went to the Northern Pacific - but even that is 8% of the production.
EMD built only 36 FP9’s and 25 of them went to Mexico.
Sheldon
Related to my above post:
Rio Grande owned the following F7’ sets which were intended for passenger duties but also worked freights (the A units ended in 1 or 4, B units 2 or 3):
F7ABBA set 5551,5552,5553,5554 (steam generators only in the B units)
F7ABBA set 5561,5562,5563,5564 (steam generators only in the B units)
F7ABBA set 5571,5572,5573,5574 (steam generators in all four units)
F7A,F9B,F9B,F7A set 5761,5762,5763,5754 (B units only - later became the RGZ B units)
F9ABBA set 5771,5772,5773,5774 (B units only - the latter three were wrecked in the late 60’s)
Rio Grande also had 3 F3ABBA sets set up just like the top two F7 sets
That is Rio Grandes entire passenger fleet of F units.
EMD also had a Canadian plant, GMD in London Ontario, which has since became the main site for EMD production. GMD built 43 FP9s for CNR and 11 for CPR. CPR had 35 FP7s, no F7s, while CNR was the reverse with over 50 F7As. Ontario Northland had something like 22 or 23 FP7s. GMD also built F7As for Wabash’s Canadian lines. Only CN and CP had B-units, both F7B and F9B models.
John
Shine’s “Great Northern Color Pictorial, Volume 1” shows pictures of F7A’s 364C, 362C and 370A with steam generators. My copy of a GN diesel diagram book shows all F7A’s numbered up to 365 as having steam generators. The book does not reference F7A’s past that number, but note that 370A above has one; so I’ll assert that ALL GN F7A’s had steam generators.
I believe the same holds for their F3A’s also, but that’s outside the scope of the discussion.
Ed
Ed, you are correct. When I did farther research I found they bought one batch one way and another the other way.
Sheldon
Sheldon, not entirely. I should have noted that I was thinking only of GN’s PASSENGER F’s. Their freight F’s, of course, didn’t have boilers. Perhaps that explains your experience, also.
Ed